Let's solve an FX loop puzzle!!

[Eric!]

Everyone loves a Groove Regulator, yes? And a good handful really enjoy a fuzz (or other effect) in its FX loop. But who wants to use one of their great fuzzes (or other effect) ONLY in the FX loop?

Can we engineer a complicated bypass so that when the GR is disengaged, the bypass goes through the FX loop?

Or perhaps some crazily-wired TB box?

An additional toggle on the GR?

There're a bunch of smart cookies here. Who's got ideas?


I did ask Spencer!, and he said having to design some crazy bypass footswitch that could flip a lot at once, or I don't know.

[TheMutt]

I know that it can be done, since some people have had their Robot Factory Meat Wads modded to do just what you are describing. However, I am unsure what the procedure to do so would be.

[Eric!]

So, I wonder if Mario knows. Emailed him.

[Spencer!]

Originally Posted by TheMutt

I know that it can be done, since some people have had their Robot Factory Meat Wads modded to do just what you are describing. However, I am unsure what the procedure to do so would be.

In the Meatwad, does he route the effects loop to a second stomp switch that works independently of the bypass? That can be done. But to make it so that the effects loop works when the pedal is bypassed, but is inserted into the circuit when the pedal is engaged, that can't be done with a 3pdt stomp switch.


Or maybe I'm thinking too hard and it's a really simple fix.

[billphreets]

Originally Posted by Ebennetts

Everyone loves a Groove Regulator, yes? And a good handful really enjoy a fuzz (or other effect) in its FX loop. But who wants to use one of their great fuzzes (or other effect) ONLY in the FX loop?

Can we engineer a complicated bypass so that when the GR is disengaged, the bypass goes through the FX loop?

Or perhaps some crazily-wired TB box?

An additional toggle on the GR?

There're a bunch of smart cookies here. Who's got ideas?


I did ask Spencer!, and he said having to design some crazy bypass footswitch that could flip a lot at once, or I don't know.

i have a similar dilemma running an assmaster in the fx loop of an old q tron+
interested to see where this thread goes..

[ehque]

IF your groove regulator works like other envelope filters... it is basically 2 pedals, yes? The "envelope sensing" section, which is the section between the INPUT and SEND jacks, and the "effecting" section, which is the section between the RECEIVE and OUTPUT section.

Think of your signal chain now as:

Bass -> GR Sense -> Fuzz -> GR Effect -> Amp

What you want is the fuzz effect without the GR effect, but its ok leaving the GR sensing portion in the loop. Thus, a one channel switcher (clicky, or Boss LS-2, for example) switching out the GR Effect portion should give you the Fuzz effect without the GR effect.

In short:

Bass -> GR INPUT
GR SEND -> Fuzz INPUT
FUZZ OUT -> LOOPER INPUT
LOOPER SEND -> GR RECEIVE
GR OUT -> LOOPER RECEIVE
LOOPER OUT -> Amp

Or:

Bass -> GR Sense -> Fuzz -> Looper (w GR Effect in loop) -> Amp

You now use the looper to switch between the fuzz effect and the fuzz+GR effect. The sensing portion should have little effect on the sound, it will probably only buffer the signal. Does that make sense?

I am fairly certain this will work.

[ehque]

Or, if you wanted to mod the GR itself, modding the stomp switch (which is true bypass) from connecting INPUT and OUTPUT to connecting RECEIVE and OUTPUT will give you the same effect.

If you do this mod, your GR will no longer be true bypass, as the buffer of the sensing portion will be in the signal chain at all times. Small price to pay and probably unnoticeable if the buffer is high quality.

[bigchiefbc]

Or you could just have a separate little box that switches the fuzz into and out of the loop of the env filter. I drew one up a while ago just as a mental exercise and thought long and hard about whether that was something that would sell at all. It wasn't hard to wire up at all.

[ehque]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

Or you could just have a separate little box that switches the fuzz into and out of the loop of the env filter. I drew one up a while ago just as a mental exercise and thought long and hard about whether that was something that would sell at all. It wasn't hard to wire up at all.

That box would require a QPDT switch, two DPDT switches switched in tandem, or a relay-actuated device.

None of them are easy solutions, imho.

[Robot Factory]

Hey all....

I have done it with flip switch + relays on a few MeatWads with the option to have the 'fx loop' available when bypassed, OR have the 'fx loop' in the effect circuit (normal fx loop operation). The fuzz (or whatever) still needs to be enabled / bypassed manually.

If you were to design a stand alone box you would need 8 I/O jacks and a bunch of switching..........

Guitar+Amp / Loop in+Loop out / Meat in+Meat out / Fuzz in+fuzz out.

And the box would realistically need power and an electronic switching array of some sort. (Relay, logic, etc).

Yuck.

While it is possible, once you consider (and I have) the cost, real estate, and cabling involved, you might do better to just buy a separate fuzz or buy an effect from someone who can wire it internally ;^)

BTW I think it took 5 DT poles to get this done internally? (one of which was just to flip the relay) I would have to put pencil to paper to be sure.

-Mario

[ehque]

Originally Posted by Robot Factory

Hey all....

Mario, is your Meatwad wired the same way as i mention above?

If so, would bypassing the "effect" portion of the Meatwad or Groove Regulator work as i described it?

I understand that your solution is true bypass, whereas mine still has the buffer of the envelope sensing portion in the signal chain. However it's also a much simpler solution.

[Spencer!]

Originally Posted by ehque

If so, would bypassing the "effect" portion of the Meatwad or Groove Regulator work as i described it?

I didn't even think of making it non-true bypass. That does simplify things, although it's slightly more complicated than what you suggested.

[Robot Factory]

Sorry, I didn't catch that this wasn't a general discussion about FX loops, but looking for a solution for this specific unit. (Groove regulator).

That being said, I agree with ehque on all counts.

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by ehque

That box would require a QPDT switch, two DPDT switches switched in tandem, or a relay-actuated device.

None of them are easy solutions, imho.

Yeah, I just did it with a 4PDT. But that's not difficult, you can find those switches. Heck, they sell them at Small Bear.

[Robot Factory]

You might get away with simply routing the Return signal to the output jack? That would be a DPDT solution. Hadn't thought of it before. You would not be able use bypass in that mode, however.......not super elegant.

[Eric!]

I was starting this in hopes of solving just the GR, yes.
Think you could mod one, Mario?

[Robot Factory]

^ I should hope so :^)

[ehque]

Originally Posted by Robot Factory

That being said, I agree with ehque on all counts.

Yay.

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

Yeah, I just did it with a 4PDT. But that's not difficult, you can find those switches. Heck, they sell them at Small Bear.

I was more thinking of the "box with 8 jacks is not easy" kind of way. I agree with you, its a simple circuit which anyone with soldering experience can solder together, especially with a QPDT switch. It won't be cheap, though, with the $12 switch and 8 jacks, along with the enclosure. Could be nearly a hundred bucks.

Originally Posted by Robot Factory

You might get away with simply routing the Return signal to the output jack? That would be a DPDT solution. Hadn't thought of it before. You would not be able use bypass in that mode, however.......not super elegant.

Agreed. It's not elegant, but it would work. Bypass would be a buffered bypass.

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by ehque

I was more thinking of the "box with 8 jacks is not easy" kind of way. I agree with you, its a simple circuit which anyone with soldering experience can solder together, especially with a QPDT switch. It won't be cheap, though, with the $12 switch and 8 jacks, along with the enclosure. Could be nearly a hundred bucks.

Jacks are only a buck and change a piece, so with the enclosure, the power jack and an LED, you're looking at 35-40 bucks tops.

[ehque]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

Jacks are only a buck and change a piece, so with the enclosure, the power jack and an LED, you're looking at 35-40 bucks tops.

I stand corrected!