LPF recommendations? (Moog or Electrix)

bigblondeafro87 · #1 09-01-2009, 12:21 PM

Hey all, I finally have gotten to the point where a filter is in my near future and have started doing some reading. I'll be playing mostly DNB, Dub, Hiphop, etc. Stuff where I want filter sweeps, deep sub bass, and possibly some wobble if the filter is capable.

At first I though the Moog was my only option for a decent sound, but I saw an Electrix Filter Queen for sale, and it seems very interesting. It can do 2 or 4 pole filter, has an LFO, is cheaper and smaller than the Moog, and can do BP, HP or LP.

Does anybody have any opinions on the matter?

gastric · #2 09-01-2009, 12:39 PM

I recently bought the Moog and EP-2 pedal. It's everything people say it is.

I also ordered a used Electrix Filter Factory which is the big brother to the Filter Queen and is MIDI controllable. So I'll be able to A-B them. However, I'm no expert on LPFs so you'll have to take my eventual review with that in mind.

speak_onion · #3 09-01-2009, 01:46 PM

I've never owned a Moog, but I love the electrix filter sound. I used to have a Filter Queen, and it was awesome for treadle sweeps and LFO throbs, but it's envelope follower actually disappointed me quite a bit. But I doubt you'd do much envelope following stuff in the styles you mention.

On this track I was running bass-->Death metal-->Filter Queen. The track is more in the experimental noise vein than any of the things you mentioned, but you'll see there's PLENTY of sub-bass and squelch.

bigblondeafro87 · #4 09-02-2009, 05:41 PM

Wow, crazy sounding stuff speak onion!

Yeah gastric, I look foward to your review. I don't plan on buying the filter for another month or two.

I think I may end up buying both in the long run, but I guess Im looking for the most versatile one of the two.

bigchiefbc · #5 09-03-2009, 05:24 AM

I've never tried the Electrix offering, but the Moog LPF is ridiculously fat. It can do really huge synth sweeps, and it can also dub the hell out of your tone if that's what you're going for. The only thing it doesn't have is an LFO, for that you'd have to get another box that can put out an LFO as a CV and run that into the Moog.

gastric · #6 09-03-2009, 07:02 AM

On paper the FF seems promising. Assuming the Filter Factory actually sounds good and is usable it has a variety of advantages over the Moog assuming you already use racked MIDI gear.

* FF is rackable, uses no pedal board space (though uses 2U of rack space)
* Assuming you already have a MIDI foot controller w/expression you once again don't use any more pedal board space
* Has other features beyond just cutoff sweeps
* Since it's MIDI controllable theoretically you can use a programmable MIDI foot controller to effectively have "presets" even though the FF doesn't natively store presets
* It's usually less expensive to buy a used FF than a used or new Moog

I found a FF manual from a helpful eBay seller and have it posted here in case you want to review the manual. http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model.../filterfactory

Mine should be here early next week. However, at the time I write this I don't actually have any MIDI foot controller available. Still shopping for that. Hopefully I'll have something available around the same time the FF arrives.

bigblondeafro87 · #7 09-03-2009, 11:10 AM

Yeah its looking now like I am getting the Moog first because it seems to be the stronger workhorse of the two. Although down the road I will definitely be getting a Filter Factory for dubstep-type wobbles at different subdivisions, frequencies, and resonance (!!!). I find that more and more music lately is using the wobble sound, so it is definitely an essential part of an up to date pedal board.

Right now I just have a DOD FX25, Boss OC2, Boss SYB-5, Danelctro Distortion, and a Ibanez TS9 so I definitely have a long way to go. I'm saving up for the Moog and 2expression pedals now, and after that I'm upgrading my cabs. Then its onto modulation effects (phaser, chorus, flanger, etc), a bonecrushing fuzz or two, and the FF and I'll be able to do a TON of different sounds.

Once you get the FF up and running, let me know how it sounds I'm very curious.

Is there a cheap external LFO that I should consider for use with the Moog?

bigchiefbc · #8 09-03-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblondeafro87

Is there a cheap external LFO that I should consider for use with the Moog?

I know that a few guys on TB use the Robot Factory LFO mod box:

http://www.martoneaudio.com/LfoModBox.htm

jufros · #9 09-03-2009, 01:04 PM

The only issue with the LFO Mod Box is that it plugs into the Moog expression jack. You can't use an expression pedal if you're using the Mod Box and that's definitely a deal breaker for me.

bigblondeafro87 · #10 09-03-2009, 02:56 PM

The thing I don't like about the Robot Factory LFO is that you can't change the rate without turning the knob. One rate gets boring real fast and my hands are busy so...

http://martoneaudio.com/custom.htm

This is something like what I have in mind, even though this is a standalone pedal. Since the moog only has one EXP out, a standalone pedal might be better for this. Then you could use different effects loops to switch from filter sweeping into dubstep very quickly. Although having it control the EXP out wouldn't necessarily be terrible, I would just have to work the songs out so there was a long enough pause to switch the jack real quick

PS: If you've contemplated picking up an OC2, DO IT

gastric · #11 09-08-2009, 03:34 PM

I just spent 40 minutes trying to figure out how to use the Electrix Filter Factory to mimic Moog LPF cutoff sweeps. My conclusion thus far is you cannot. It seems the "frequency" setting is tied to the "resonance" and "LFO depth" settings to provide a resonant BOOST as opposed to a hard cutoff. Turn the "resonance" all the way down to kill the resonant peak/boost and a sweep of the "frequency" knob effectively does nothing of significance as far as I can tell. You'd expect some sort of cutoff similar to the Moog.

I will say that the Resonance knob can easily blow up your amp. Not that I did, but it can SERIOUSLY push some output and I can picture it destroying equipment. Thus you're forced to use a low resonance setting which seems to further complicate your ability to get a good sweep sound. Totally related one of the suggested settings in the manual on Page 10 when detailing the Envelope Follower is to run a LPF with the resonance at 7.5 which just friggin' silly.

The best I've done thus far is some throbbing with other waveforms and some funky sounding auto-Q type filtering. I PM'ed Speak Onion as he owns a Filter Queen and might be able to provide some additional tips.

The problem with the Electrix products is they're ancient, discontinued, and there's no active user groups. So you're more or less left to fend for yourself to figure the thing out.

Jared Lash · #12 09-08-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jufros

The only issue with the LFO Mod Box is that it plugs into the Moog expression jack. You can't use an expression pedal if you're using the Mod Box and that's definitely a deal breaker for me.

Au contraire. All you have to do is ask Mario for a mod to add an expression jack so that when the pedal is off the expression pedal can control the cutoff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblondeafro87

The thing I don't like about the Robot Factory LFO is that you can't change the rate without turning the knob. One rate gets boring real fast and my hands are busy so...

The other mod I had Mario do on mine was a switch so that either the rate knob or the expression pedal controlled the rate when the pedal was on.

jufros · #13 09-08-2009, 03:59 PM

I was talking to him about building a dual output expression splitter box with all of the waveforms from the lfo mod box included. The used MP-201 I picked up this week was only marginally more expensive.

But now I have to sell my Shape Shifter and get the Goatkeeper so that I that CV sync it up to the MP-201 along with the Photron and MF-101 right?

...

Jared Lash · #14 09-08-2009, 04:05 PM

You'd have to talk to fightthepower about that. I gave up trying to do electronica stuff when both projects I tried to start fell apart so I've never tried the MP-201.

But I'd imagine if you're going to drop the coin for such a cool controller you'd want to take advantage of it as much as possible.

bassbmx · #15 09-08-2009, 04:48 PM

I just won a Filter Factory for US$132 over ebay

Still planning on getting an MF-101 and MP-201. I'm hoping I can find a use for the FF. If not, I'm sure I won't have any problem selling it on for what I payed for it.

bigblondeafro87 · #16 09-08-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

I just spent 40 minutes trying to figure out how to use the Electrix Filter Factory to mimic Moog LPF cutoff sweeps. My conclusion thus far is you cannot. It seems the "frequency" setting is tied to the "resonance" and "LFO depth" settings to provide a resonant BOOST as opposed to a hard cutoff. Turn the "resonance" all the way down to kill the resonant peak/boost and a sweep of the "frequency" knob effectively does nothing of significance as far as I can tell. You'd expect some sort of cutoff similar to the Moog.

I will say that the Resonance knob can easily blow up your amp. Not that I did, but it can SERIOUSLY push some output and I can picture it destroying equipment. Thus you're forced to use a low resonance setting which seems to further complicate your ability to get a good sweep sound. Totally related one of the suggested settings in the manual on Page 10 when detailing the Envelope Follower is to run a LPF with the resonance at 7.5 which just friggin' silly.

The best I've done thus far is some throbbing with other waveforms and some funky sounding auto-Q type filtering. I PM'ed Speak Onion as he owns a Filter Queen and might be able to provide some additional tips.

The problem with the Electrix products is they're ancient, discontinued, and there's no active user groups. So you're more or less left to fend for yourself to figure the thing out.

yeah I think I'll pass on that mess and go with the tried and true Moog.

Honestly I think a lot of dubstep stuff may be so unrealistic to do on a bass guitar, a lot of the sound is that mechanical, unforgiving sound of an electronic instrument. While you may be able to do some really cool dubstepISH stuff on a bass, all the nuances and complexities that a programmed bassline can have would be super difficult if not impossible to replicate.

Although, it doesn't hurt to try

gastric · #17 09-08-2009, 05:19 PM

I've contacted a couple people, including the seller I bought from, to see if they have some tips. I'm hoping someone can direct me properly as it has some nice features like the built in LFO, and most importantly MIDI controllable.

gastric · #18 09-08-2009, 07:36 PM

OK, I'm a total IDIOT.

When plugging my rack gear into my SansAmp RBI I accidentally hit the seemingly useless 50/50 switch which seems more like an 80/20 as it blends in dry/direct signal along with the effects loop. Thus I was hearing my clean bass with just a hint of filtered sweep in the background. Now I'm getting serious Filter Factory action as I should have all along. I'll have a review and hopefully a clip or two in the next few days. Without a CV or MIDI controller it makes it fairly difficult to actuate the filter frequency without your hand.

bassbmx · #19 09-08-2009, 11:39 PM

^^^ That makes me happy! I'm hoping your second review is more favorable.

speak_onion · #20 09-09-2009, 08:04 AM

Glad this got sorted. I couldn't figure out what could be wrong. Nice!