MOOG FREQBOX - master thread

[gastric]

I just picked up a Freqbox. It seems extremely promising for synth bass fun. And I thought it deserved its own thread for discussion, tips, what not as currently there's simply various comments spread throughout other threads.

Honestly, I've bought a TON of effects based on other people's reviews at how great things are and have usually said "Meh" and sold them off after trying them. In contrast I bought the Freqbox on the strong suggestion of just a few TBers and without there being much in the way of positive reviews, YouTube videos, sound clips, etc.

So I was suprized when I got it, started using it, and was actually happy blowing this amount of cash on a single pedal.

In particular I was suprised it can cop a very similar tone as the heavily gated fuzz of the Brown Dog. And when you consider the Freqbox is only about $75 more expensive retail than a Brown Dog, and has wayyyyy more applications and sounds for that "synthy bass", I'm suprized more people are turned onto it. Though it has less applications for non-synth stuff.

Anyway, there's been a lot of side discussions on the Freqbox in various threads here and there, but no "master" thread on the Freqbox like you find with some other effects. So I thought I'd start one in hopes other owners could post here and we could have some sort of collective on this great product.

To start, here's some Freqbox comments I've culled from TB. I didn't happen to copy the username of the person logging the comments, but most (maybe all) are probably from FightThePower who's been the Freqbox's biggest promoter.

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RNILSONs audio clips, which currently include at least one FREQBOX clip: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=951305

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The FM section is the least audible on Saw and Triangle waves and/or in low frequencies; if you just got the Freqbox and have been trying to dial in mostly clean saw's, I'd imagine you wouldn't have been able to hear anything when turning the knob hehe..

If you turn the Freq up, or even keep it low, say at 2, and then go to the Pulse wave and you should hear timbre changes when changing the FM amount. A mixture of FM and PWM can yield good results in low freq's with lfo's in the FM and Wave inputs (modulating between square and pulse); when the Frequency is up around roughly 4 or higher, regardless of where you play on the neck, you'll start to really be able to hear the FM working. Any enveloping will make the FM more audible as well.

One use of the FM would be for copping Orbit style tones, without the FM on the high pitched wave can be very smooth and 'siney' for lack of a better word, but the FM mashes it up nicely- Try running a gated fuzz (Orbit's gated fuzz side works just fine), into the Freqbox with a healthy blend via freqbox, and turn the frequency and fm way up, envelope to taste, and you can get some ringing fuzz tones. Running the fuzz into the Ringmod with the carrier in/out through the Freqbox really nails it. I like the Orbit a lot but have been debating keeping it since I have those other pedals in my rig already.. Playing the Orbit with an exp pedal and flipping the toggle switch back&forth is pretty damn fun though!
Reply With Quote

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The Geb7 sits very well after an octaver- I use one to boost lows/cut highs going into the Freqbox and/or P&C followed by the Moog LPF or Photron, and for drastic eq and volume cut going into the Devi Bass Fuzz, etc.

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Yep it can make a big difference, the Pollyanna I mentioned above produces an octave very similar to the Nocto Loco and the Freqbox tracks it very well. I prefer the tone and dynamics of the OC-2 into the Freqbox, and have found that placing a buffer and/or Eq (boost lows, cut highs) between an octave pedal and the Freqbox makes for a great tracking VCO.

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*Freqbox has trouble tracking solo'd suboctaves in the 'first' position (10-12th fret E string)
*Eq'ing out highs from suboctaver going into Freqbox significantly improves tracking (even with the true bypass BMS as an 'eq')
*Placing a bypassed Boss pedal in between an octaver and Freqbox has the same effect as Eq'ing on the Freqbox's tracking--

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I haven't spent too much time with my compressor in front of the freqbox, but when I tried it there was a significant improvement in tracking (it also tracks dirty/compressed signals very well), but I prefer the tone I get with a high-cut/low-boosted signal. I seem to get more oscillator noise/higher pitched sound when compressing first, which makes sense I guess, since compression evens everything out..

For reference: On a saw, I generally keep the Frequency just under '2' and triangles almost at 0. I haven't ventured up the fretboard much with it yet and Im usually tied to a filter, so Ive been picking a frequency range and sticking with it for the most part. Ive been thinking about a midi/cv converter so that I can draw out specific lfo's to go with each section of the beat, so that it will automatically sweep the 'frequency' as needed for the given bass line, giving me more range and allowing me to jump up the neck with a squarewave for instance. This wouldn't leave much room for improvisation, but it seems like a good idea- to be honest this is still just brainstormin' and I haven't looked into the Kenton's or others yet, so Im not 100% that there is something out there that will let me 'draw' the automation.. but it seems like it could be a great idea. The MP201 is very limited in this department, at the moment at least.

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From my hour or so of playing with the box I'll say that the tracking is really pretty good. It can definitely get glitchy when running a clean bass through it like most analog tracking. But it'll track all the way to an open low B on my Ibanez SR506 as long as you don't let it ring out while pushing a totally clean signal to the Freqbox. But I was genuinely suprized since people complain about the tracking. I was expecting it to be truly horrible but I've had better luck with it than my OC-2, BOSS VF-1 synth tracking.

Additionally, it seems to track fairly fast notes very well. Lastly, the overall tracking SIGNFICANTLY improves if I run the Brown Dog set to a high gate and fuzz in front of it, though you lose most/all of the Freqbox envelope capabilities since the Brown Dog compresses the bejesus out of the signal. But the Brown Dog makes the Freqbox really effortless.

A-Bing the clean bass then the Brown Dog into the Freqbox also illstrates how the Freqbox produces pretty different sounds based on the input signal. I don't pretend to understand the technical workings of the Freqbox, but it's definitely not the same as simply triggering a digital synth.

Here's a quick audio, everything played on my B string. Starts clean; Brown Dog with gate max, fuzz 2 O'clock, pure dirty no clean, switch to hard; then Freqbox set to saw, Freq on 2, Mix on 10, hard sync on, everything else off. I bounce back and forth between the BD and Freq, and lastly run the BD into the Freq to illustrate the difference in sound and tracking, then noodle with the tracking down my B string. At the very very end I loosen the BD gate from max to about 2 O'clock where I normally run it. That seems to give the Freq nearly limitless sustain and help tracking those low B notes much better since the gate doesn't sputter.

http://www.cgraham.com/chris/music/b...s_browndog.mp3

I never play a clean signal so I should post up in the "what effects do you use to hide your lack of talent" thread as: EVERYTHING.

Other comments:

• For the audio my signal chain is Ibanez SR506 > BOSS LS-2 > A channel Brown Dog > B channel Freq > Tech21 Sansamp with Rane DC24 in the FX loop providing mostly limiting on the lows and some 2:1 compression on highs > DAW with an ancient Aardvark Q10.
• Patch ENV OUT to EVN AMOUNT IN and it totally changes the scope of the envelope feature into some really extreme, crazy stuff.
• I'm thinking that extreme, crazy stuff you get when turning the Env knob up while patched as noted above would mix/blend well with other sounds for some really interesting synthy noise.
• There's so many different sounds you can get out of the box from turning just 4 knobs. So many that I'm wishing it had presets. Which is where the Moog MP-201 probably simplifies things a ton. Though I'd imagine you'd want to run all 4 CV outs from that into just the Freqbox leaving none for LPF control.
• Good god it actually has an OUTPUT knob to control the output volume! SHOCKING!
• Holy cow it actually has GOOD bypass unlike the absolutely HORRIBLE bypass on the Moog LPF.
• It'd be great if there was some cheap MIDI to CV device similar to the MP-201, but that was dumber and cheaper and with many more CV outs. Then you could have a Behringer FCB1010 (which I'm about to own anyway) or similar wildly functional MIDI pedal with multiple expressions and CC pedal assignments to tweak it out in possibly a much more versatile manner than the MP-201. But that's my uneducated mind brimming with ideas. But really I hate having to label my pedals to remember the various settings, I'd rather have presets, or some what to master control everything via MIDI patches that I program instead of having to use real-time brain power to remember. I certainly will NOT have 8 expression pedals on my board to control a couple Moogs. That's rediculous. But I'd like to hear some thoughts on MIDI-to-CV as it has to be the real way to go with this stuff.
• But really, I was mostly under-impressed with the Moog LPF considering it's cost, though it does what it should. Where in contrast I'm extremely excited about the bass synth possibilities the Freqbox will probably provide.
• In some other thread the Freqbox was mentioned it was proposed as a way to get that awesome Snoop Dog Doggystyle tone. I think this would definitely be the beast to do it, and my audio is an attempt to show that though the riff isn't exactly right it'll give you an idea.

I'm sure some of the excitement will die off I as use it more and come to learn it's limits and downsides.

I'll close with the fact that all of this is a bunch of words. I'll whip up more sound samples to share over the weekend. I'm admittedly not the best player, and extremely inexperienced with effects in general compared to some of the other bass synth guys active here. But I'll try to contribute what I can.

Also, I think the Ibanez SR506 generally sounds like crap clean. I bought it used off eBay, it still has the factory strings on it which the coating is peeling off like a bad sunburn, and I think the pickups are set too high as no matter how soft/hard/where I pluck, or if I use a pick, there's always a slight "popping" sound from the attack. I'm not trying to hijack my own thread but thought I'd throw that out there. I have some DR Sunbeams and a pro setup scheduled for next week in hopes of making me love this bass.

[bigchiefbc]

Also, here's a review I did of it last year. The mic used in the clip is crappy and clips a lot, though

Quick Run-thru of the Moog Freqbox

EDIT: I was just informed the link to the clip in the old thread is dead, and its too old for me to edit. Here's a link that works.

[fightthepower]

Cool thread, I guess I missed this one. The quoted material above is all taken from posts I've made in recent months.

Gastric- you've obviously been doing your homework with this stuff (freqbox, filters, midi, etc), good to see you're making great progress! It took me months to warm up to the Freqbox, but it's been one of my most used pedals ever since I first got it dialed in with my stuff.

Lots of good info in this thread so far and most of what I have to say about it is up in the first post, so to paraphrase, a few things I've found with the Freqbox:

*placing a buffered pedal and/or EQ(cut highs, boost lows) pre-Freqbox significantly aides in tracking. I stick a GEB-7 between my OC-2 and Freqbox but with a DOD Octoplus, I didn't even need to turn the EQ on- just having the bypassed buffer in between was good enough for consistent tracking everywhere on the neck.(without the buffer in the middle, there are a few spots on the neck-not dead ones- that do not trigger well/at all) Before using the GEB-7, I had a BMS between the Freqbox and OC-2, with only the guitar slider up, and set the Stop Freq to taste (I kept it almost all the way down). For more info on this check out Tracking Weirdness involving the Freqbox and Boss Buffers, and the clips I reference in that thread can be found at the bottom ofthis page; I made those clips before figuring out the bit with the buffer, as explained in the first link.

*For Pulse width modulation (PWM), modulate the 'wave' CV input with an lfo or expression pedal, or by turning the knob manually; I find the best results modulating between a Pulse and Square wave.

*FM is most audible with the Freq and/or Envelope in high settings. When playing at/below about 100hz with a saw or triangle, no envelope, and the Freq low to match around 0-2, you won't hear much change with the FM. In higher settings and especially with the square or pulse waves, it can be very noticeable; I picture it as such: take a simple triangle wave with perfectly straight connecting lines /\/\/\/\; now turn the FM up, and the triangle wave retains its basic shape, but the lines start to scramble adding textural/timbrel changes, almost fuzzy in higher settings.

*Experimenting with the input and output gain can result in some interesting timbrel changes

*The Freqbox is best used, in my opinion, with either a filter or fuzz after it; when used this way, the Hard Sync distortion on attack of each note is masked and unnoticeable.

[Mudfuzz]

Ok, this seems like the best place to put this question.

First, I understand that it might take more then a freq box to do it [maybe a octave, another filter ect, ect, ect...

Can one get close to this sound [the bass sound] in this song or sould I just give in and work out something to do midi control with a real synth?

I have yet to hear a recording of freq box coming close to this sound other then the Op's, still not there, but I still thought I'd ask...

Wow I never though I'd be asking one of these how do I get that sound questions
Like HELP! and all that

[T. Alan Smith]

This thread needs BUMPing.

[rratajski]

Thanks! Subscribed.
I'll post video in here once I get my head back.

[gastric]

Coincidentally I was going through some old files and found this one which has me noodling with a FreqBox with the frequency manually swept with an expression pedal. I can't tell you exactly what the signal chain is, and I no longer own any pedals at all so I can't reproduce it. But I believe I had the FreqBox running into some dirt (CoPilot Orbit or Brown Dog), then a BOSS VF-1 possibly with bit crusher and some delay from the sounds of it. Clip has a built-up sound from clean to fully effected and you can hear the FreqBox significantly changing the pitch via sweeping the frequency.

Honestly, I never got the use I expected out of the Freqbox. I think to really get the most out of the Moog pedals you need a serious CV controller so you can manipulate multiple aspects with precision. Unless you're prepared to go hardcore in that direction I think stand-alone synth pedals/effects are much more easily usable, particularly out of the box. For synth fun I personally have found a laptop running the freely available FrettedSynth audo-tracking synth apps are much more usable. You get great tracking, multiple oscillators, really a nice modular synth setup in free software.

[T. Alan Smith]

Originally Posted by gastric

[url="cgraham.com/chris/music/bass/freqbox_clip_01.mp3"]
Honestly, I never got the use I expected out of the Freqbox.. .

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. It's a great pedal. After spending some time with it, I found it could be quite versatile in the studio...for little things here & there.
However, I've been searching here for ideas how to make it useful for live applications. So far, it appears an octaver and some sort of filter should help...from reading other threads here.

[markjazzbassist]

this is the next pedal i'm wanting to get (either this or the moog phaser) and i'm interesting in using it in conjunction with my lowpass filter and ring mod. i'd like to get an mp-201 eventually to tie them all together and make sonic mayhem.

when you guys said you thought you were going to be able to get more out of the pedal, what disappointed you?

[T. Alan Smith]

Originally Posted by markjazzbassist

this is the next pedal i'm wanting to get (either this or the moog phaser) and i'm interesting in using it in conjunction with my lowpass filter and ring mod. i'd like to get an mp-201 eventually to tie them all together and make sonic mayhem.

when you guys said you thought you were going to be able to get more out of the pedal, what disappointed you?

Well, it's really dramatic/bold. It's difficult to reign in for the more ambient textures. Most of what I do is "jamscape" music.

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by gastric

Honestly, I never got the use I expected out of the Freqbox. I think to really get the most out of the Moog pedals you need a serious CV controller so you can manipulate multiple aspects with precision.

Very true I agree %100 More over there are things you can do only if you are running CV ect. I have a Mp-201 and I can get it to do all kinds or stuff that you can not do standalone.

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by Mudfuzz

Ok, this seems like the best place to put this question.

First, I understand that it might take more then a freq box to do it [maybe a octave, another filter ect, ect, ect...

Can one get close to this sound [the bass sound] in this song or sould I just give in and work out something to do midi control with a real synth?

I have yet to hear a recording of freq box coming close to this sound other then the Op's, still not there, but I still thought I'd ask...

Wow I never though I'd be asking one of these how do I get that sound questions
Like HELP! and all that

None of you answered my question and you are all going to hell


So, I got a freqbox now, I can do the sound I want, it can do many sounds I want, I no longer lust for midi pickups

[bass.bert]

in search of the perfect oscillator sound for my synth setup, i recently tested the freqbox. the sounds i had in mind and that i expected to achieve, are basically those monophonic bass-sounds of a minimoog. especially something with a fat bottom and a dirty sparkling topend but still overall smooth sounding. so i'm mainly interested in a nice triangle wave. square, pulse, and even saw can be simulated relative easily by certain fuzzes, but sine and triangle are harder to get. i really just checked this box for its basic sounds, and didn't go that deep. i mean in combination with some cv controllers or other moogerfoogers you could tweak your sound to perfection. sky and your bank account are the limits.

the pure waveforms itself are really convincing and great sounding. the output on the osc out is very high, and now all my neighbors do also know the sound of a real moog oscillator...
in hardsync mode the waveforms are not that pure anymore, because the oscillator normally will be reset before the end of a wavecycle, to remain the pitch. this will add some additional harmonics to the signal, and simply sound like distortion. if anybody is interested in technical details, check this thread

i was not that happy with this fact, because i was looking for that characteristic triangle sound. the additional distortion just made it sound more similar to a square/pulse wave.

next thing i recognized: the amount of these distortions is not consistent for every note. it depends on the relation between the tone you are playing, and the frequency the oscillator is set to. that means, if you tune the oscillator to D, and you play the same D on your bass, the wavecycle of the oscillator has the same length as the to tone you are playing. both heve the same frequency, and the oscillator will be reset after a full cycle. the wave is not cut, no harmonics are added, and you'll hear the basic waveform. if you play another tone higher or deeper, but still have the oscillator tuned to D, you'll get that distortions again. check the first seconds of this clip, i tuned the oscillator to the root note and played a chromatic scale upwards. the distortion increases the further you go away from the root.

so if you like to have even harmonics on all notes, you would either have to cover all the distortion under a low pass filter, or to permanently shift the frequency along the pitch you are playing (expression pedal), or to add another distortion afterwards. i also got a more even distortion by patching the envelope out into the wave in. i think that made the oscillator shortly jump to the square or pulse wave in the attack phase of the tone and then back to the triangle when the first volume peak of the bass-signal is gone.

i recorded some clips with the -1oct of an octamizer and an oc-2 into the freqbox. i found the octamizer the ideal partner, better than the boss. it sounded fatter and smoother, also the tracking was better. the filter options on the octamizer are quite useful in this set up to improve the tracking. also the octamizer spits out a rather compressed octave, and, as others also found out, the freqbox really likes compressed signals.

SOUND SAMPLES

checking the triangle with octamizer and oc-2. every first riff without patch, then with patch to get consistent distortion
octamizer-oc2_freqbox-tri_D – settings:
- octamizer (filter 12 o'clock, -1oct only) > freqbox(triangle, tuned to D, env+fm off, mix 100%)
- octamizer (filter 12 o'clock, -1oct only) > freqbox(triangle, tuned to D, env+fm off, mix 100%, patch env–>wave)
- oc-2 (-1oct only) > freqbox(triangle, tuned to D, env+fm off, mix 100%)
- oc-2 (-1oct only) > freqbox(triangle, tuned to D, env+fm off, mix 100%, patch env–wave)

checking the other waveforms:
octamizer_freqbox-waveforms – settings:
octamizer (filter 12 o'clock, -1oct only) > freqbox(1.pulse 2.square 3.saw 4.triangle, tuned to D, env+fm off, mix 100%)

checking the other waveforms with full fm amount:
octamizer_freqbox-waveforms_fm – settings:
octamizer (filter 12 o'clock, -1oct only) > freqbox(1.pulse 2.square 3.saw 4.triangle, tuned to D, env off, fm 100%, mix 100%)

…and a freaky clip playing with the envelope amount.
octamizer_freqbox_envelope – settings:
octamizer (filter 12 o'clock, -1oct only) > freqbox(wave?, tuned to ?, fm ?, env 100%, mix 100%)


after testing, i send the freqbox back, because it's not the real deal for me. it's a great sounding unit, and it also can be used as a versatile distortion frequency modulation gives you many possibilities to change the character of your distorted signal), but i simply want a stable sounding oscillator with a nice triangle. maybe i missed something or there are some more tricks to get this pedal behaving like a real oscillator, but for now i'm not convinced. the search goes on...

[fightthepower]

The massaging of the signal via octaver heavily EQ'd pre-freqbox is essential for even response, minimal distortion and increased range in hard sync; the difference you noticed between the OC2 vs Octamizer as input signal is even more evident when you EQ the signal, and even better if you compress pre-octaver.

[rcubed]

I'm just bought one so I'm going to have to read through this thread.

[Mudfuzz]

Fun tip if you haven't tried it.
Run the OSC out into the Carrier in on your ring mod.

[bass.bert]

Originally Posted by fightthepower

The massaging of the signal via octaver heavily EQ'd pre-freqbox is essential for even response, minimal distortion and increased range in hard sync; the difference you noticed between the OC2 vs Octamizer as input signal is even more evident when you EQ the signal, and even better if you compress pre-octaver.

i tried to get better results by putting a fx25b in dub setting between oc-2 and freqbox, and yes, there was an improvement even with just the dod buffer. but i always got distortion just on certain notes as i described above. and with a triangle it was quite evident.
hm, it would be too complex for me to use about 3 pedals just to get anotherone working right anyway...

so you really get even response over 1 or 2 octaves with the right eqing/compression?

[fightthepower]

+1 to Mudfuzz, the decays can be a little weird since the Osc Out isn't gated, but its a nice hot signal for the Carrier In for octavia tones.

For making noise, I also like sending the Ringmod's Carrier OUT into the Freqbox's audio input, and the Freqbox's audio out into the rest of the pedals including the Ringmods audio In further down the line

Originally Posted by bass.bert

i tried to get better results by putting a fx25b in dub setting between oc-2 and freqbox, and yes, there was an improvement even with just the dod buffer. but i always got distortion just on certain notes as i described above. and with a triangle it was quite evident.
hm, it would be too complex for me to use about 3 pedals just to get anotherone working right anyway...

so you really get even response over 1 or 2 octaves with the right eqing/compression?

Yep the EQing makes a big difference and gets rid of any turd notes that used to drop out (ie random notes well within the hard sync range), but the square and especially triangle are limited to 1 octave or less with no adjustments to the Frequency knob; the triangle at best ends up being more saw-ish in settings that have some range, though Im a big fan of the saw and use it more anyway and am content faking the triangle-y and sine-y tones with a bit of filter or eq on the Freqbox or OC-2. *edit* I just read through your whole post, and have to say that the pure triangle you're looking for with that sparkle on top is the hardest to achieve in any meaningful way with the Freqbox... your clip demonstrated it pretty well; adding the EQ in the middle would give you more consistency on the notes, but the triangle would still turn quickly into a saw and lose the smoothness+sparkle outside of a very small range. Not quite the same, but a slight sample rate reduction after a fat octave tone can create that bit of sparkle on top, though I guess it doesn't 'track pitch', fwiw.

I stumbled onto the EQ trick one day when I happened to put the BMS with the filter 95% closed between the octave and Freqbox, and after this I tried other pedals including the FX25 and did not have the same results. I didn't have good results with EQ at first either, but went back to it after I decided that it didn't make sense that it shouldn't work at least as well as the BMS, and ultimately found some ideal settings with EQ and tossed the BMS. The compression, specifically the Philosophers Tone first in line, seems to get me a little more volume and range in higher notes (when nothing is chnged other than kicking it on) and allows me to slide around the neck with great tracking... not to mention up to 30 seconds of sustain. i really need to get a fretless.

Ultimately it is indeed quite a commitment to have a bunch of pedals needed just to make a bigass pedal work well. For my situation the Freqbox is the best tool for the job hands down, but I can certainly see why it isn't or wouldn't be for many.

[bass.bert]

Originally Posted by fightthepower

I stumbled onto the EQ trick one day when I happened to put the BMS with the filter 95% closed between the octave and Freqbox, and after this I tried other pedals including the FX25 and did not have the same results. I didn't have good results with EQ at first either, but went back to it after I decided that it didn't make sense that it shouldn't work at least as well as the BMS, and ultimately found some ideal settings with EQ and tossed the BMS. The compression, specifically the Philosophers Tone first in line, seems to get me a little more volume and range in higher notes (when nothing is chnged other than kicking it on) and allows me to slide around the neck with great tracking... not to mention up to 30 seconds of sustain. i really need to get a fretless.

it seems to be part of the pedal magic, that buffers, booster and stuff can be really helpful in the right combination and settings, but on the other hand are able to sneakily destroy your tone, manipulate your envelope in a bad way, or seem to be noisy and unusuable in certain positions of the signal chain.

the octamizer naturally does things like filtering (you really can boost your lows using filter and volume) and compression for which you use other pedals. i recommend it as great partner for the freqbox. it handles that fooger better than all other octavers i tried.
but, as you said, with some additional stompboxes and experimentation you can get some good or even better results. depends on the patience to find the right settings...

thanks for the tip with the sample rate reducer. i gonna check something like this for other usages also. i need some kind of aliaser...