Moog MF101 Vs Iron Ether Xerograph (Vs LPF Wah)

[MarkyDynaBass]

Been looking for a filter to do low pass sweeps, narrowed down to a Moog MF101, IE Xero (both controlled with an expression pedal) or a LP Wah (105q?). Musically think Post Rock instrumental to ambient chillout to space rock.

With the prices of the Moog and IE being reasonably close (only about $50 difference from what I’ve found surprisingly) why would someone choose the Xero over the Moog? Having not used either, but listened around on youtube etc. I love the Moog’s fantastic fat deep sound and I’ve been having a hard time trying to resist. Haven’t found any examples of the Xero doing deep dubby stuff to really compare but sounds good from what I have heard as an envelope filter. The Xero has a blend knob, and is smaller (not really that important to me)… The moog looks better (imo) and is a moog and does envelope following too. So I dunno, any reason to put one over the other?

And on the other side, would any cheaper Wah options (eg. 105q) even come close to being able to do the sweeps that these 2 can do and be worth considering.

I think I need a sanity check (re: cheque) to be spending this much on a filter, but these 2 seem like the only ones worth considering for what I want to do.

[MarkyDynaBass]

How embarrassing, just remembered this thread that I read a week ago or so....

Best Lowpass Filter?

"I'd say that the Xerograph is "cleaner", and the Moog is "synthier". i.e. the Moog has a more resonant, peaky, synthy quality to the filter sound than the Xerograph. It kinda depends what you're looking to do with it. If you want huge 70's synth sweeps, I'd go with the Moog. If you want to do like dubby reggae tones, I'd go Xerograph.

But that's just based purely on the sound. The Xero can get you 90% of the way to the Moog, and it takes up 1/4 the space and is true bypass, which the Moog certainly isn't (a lot of people really hate the bypass on the Moog)."

Don't suppose anyone's go anything to add?

[moosapotamus]

I have not tried the Xero, but I do LOVE the bypass sound of the Mooger. I don't understand the folks that don't.

And, why no talk of the WMD Super Fatman in this comparison?

~ Charlie

[DannDubblewe]

I have the Super Fatman, the MF101 and the MP201 to control both of them. Honestly, they are two different beasts. The Moog is way synthier and the SFM is just, well, more intense and more of a traditional envelope filter simultaneously. The SFM wont self oscillate like the Moog (which is one thing I love about the Moog) and the sweep on it is more guttural. The MF101 is smoother sounding and more suited to comfortable volume levels whereas the SFM is outstanding in its spectrum of extreme filtering. I use the SFM as an envelope filter and the MF101 as my "sweeper." Sweeper of souls. Both create outstanding dub tones, however.

I have no experience with the Xerograph, but I foresee myself at least trying it, especially with the MF101 at the same time. *terrified*

[Happynoj]

105q is not a low pass filter. It's bandpass. The only low pass wah I've found is the EBS.

[M Sterling]

I have used both pretty extensively and this is based on my experience and opinion. The Moog is big, has a crappy bypass, and runs off of a stupid power supply. I hear what Jared was saying in his summation and I guess the Moog could be called "synthier", but the difference is nominal at best. I found it to be much easier to dial in a much wider array of sounds with the Xero and I personally think it looks waaay better. My bandmates, in 2 different bands, also commented on how much better it sounded when I switched to the Xero. I hear what you're saying about "it's a Moog", but really, it's a poorly designed pedal that falls short of what that name implies, my keyboard player who has been playing Moogs for years (real Moogs not the foogers) agrees that they almost got it right....but not quite. I'd say get the Moog if you need it to work with CV, which is the only advantage to owning it over the Xero, otherwise (IMO, IME, FWIW, etc...) get the Xero you will thank yourself later.

Oh yeah and the super fatman looks awesome...

[MarkyDynaBass]

Thanks for that. All up the Xero is about $100 cheaper too, which is kinda important.

Anyone have any clips of the Xerograph with an expression pedal? The only ones I've heard are all funky, which I'll some of but mostly it'll be spacy slow stuff.

[T. Alan Smith]

Originally Posted by MarkyDynaBass

Thanks for that. All up the Xero is about $100 cheaper too, which is kinda important.

Anyone have any clips of the Xerograph with an expression pedal? The only ones I've heard are all funky, which I'll some of but mostly it'll be spacy slow stuff.

BIG +1 here!

[AlvarHanso]

I would recommend checking out the Source Audio BEF Pro. It has a Lo Retain feature that allows you to control the wet blend while keeping the low end, as well as a pure wet/dry blend. It also has 20 envelope settings, 3 phasers, and 6 available presets, programmable EQ, LFO with 8 selectable wave shapes. It also works with an expression pedal with tons of uses for the EP, comes with a card for a free Hot Hand, which also allows for control of functions via that as well. I've had mine just over a week and have yet to figure everything out, but the quickest conclusion I came to, was it was the perfect envelope filter for me. I'm still keeping my 3Leaf Audio Groove Regulator, because it augments the BEF Pro and Moog Bass MuRF in my setup. Here's the demo video for it, at the end is a song created using various settings. Also, the BEF Pro is replacing my 105q. I'm officially taking it out, because the BEF does fantastic traditional auto-wah, as well as wah with the EP.

‪Bass Effects Pedal Demo - Soundblox Pro Bass Envelope Filter‬‏ - YouTube

And I'm curious as to the post about the Moog having terrible bypass. My MuRF just switches on and off with the press of a button... Is the MF-101 that different?

[DeltaPhoenix]

By having terrible bypass, what is meant is that even when not in use, the Moog adds noise into the signal. My Moog did this as well.
The Xerograph has seperate clean and filter controls which allows for the ability to have a "doubled" sounding bassline if both are cranked. There is absoluetly no lowend loss with the Xero in my experience with out the clean on at all, in fact, depending on where the frequency is set, bass can be outrageously dubby.

[AlvarHanso]

That's odd. I've only owned the MuRF as far as Mooger Foogers go, but mine doesn't affect the signal when bypassed at all. It can be kind of a pain to find the exact right drive and output settings so that my levels don't spike up or down when I engage it with other effects on. Good to note if that's generally true of the MF-101. But then, I am set on envelope filters.

[MarkyDynaBass]

awesome clip... scares me tbh!

[wolffman]

all things considered i went xerograph after using the moog and am pleased with the choice.

[DeltaPhoenix]

Man, I like that video overall, I like and don't like some of the settings, which is okay. I am definately waiting awhile if I get the BEF Pro. I always love the Will Cady demos, I wonder what the rest of his set-up is because the MWBD Pro did not sound awesome on my Eden rig for use with my band, say what you want, it is digital and it definately sounded digital. I definately would not use it on my Ampeg SVT (sacreligous to do so). So I sold it. I want to buy the BEF Pro but I am going to wait. I want to be a SA fan boy, I always wondered why there was no octave down on the MWBD Pro. I guess I am wanting to buy a few pedals that I am sure that I will use before this one. Not to mention that I am sure that there is a pretty big learning curve to get the most out of this pedal. I definately would want to be able to use the backpage effectively.

[AlvarHanso]

The backpage on the BEF Pro is much more to wrap your head around than the MWBD Pro for sure! I understand what you're saying about the sounds of the MWBD, I used my presets mainly for synthy sounds, my 1/4 is clean boost/normal distortion, and using the EP-2 to morph them, I fidn midway creates the perfect amount of fuzz for me. But for playing a song like Birdland, I go with a multiband octave for synthiness. Saturday, I was doing a bit of changing to presets on the BEF, and noticed none were Triple Peak, so added Triple Peak one, and checked it on Birdland, and it sounded super sick with the multiwave Octave setting! My next task is going to be finding some really usable LFO settings, I've found good freakout LFO stuff, but nothing to use as a droning sound for base (foundational) loops.

[M Sterling]

Originally Posted by MarkyDynaBass

Thanks for that. All up the Xero is about $100 cheaper too, which is kinda important.

Anyone have any clips of the Xerograph with an expression pedal? The only ones I've heard are all funky, which I'll some of but mostly it'll be spacy slow stuff.

Most of these use the expression pedal in one way or another. There are a couple that don't, please feel free to ask if you have any specific questions about the clips. The one entitled "Dirty DnB" has a pretty long sweep in the middle part before the wobbles start.

Iron Ether Pedal Demos and Sound Clips by M Sterling

[Colonel Monk]

I own both of these filters.

I used to use the LPF on my board, to be honest I never really understood the really bad rap the bypass gets, though it doesn't have an output control. If it did I think it would be less of an issue....

It is big though, and now is mounted on a rack with the rest of my moogers. Get's alot less use these days as I'm not making space / psych rock at the moment, instead having fun playing covers to keep my chops up....

I love the Xerograph. It's small, and as I wasn't interested in using it as an envelope filter it's just perfect. I use it more like a wah with some dirt in front - without the harmonic content from some distortion it's not very useful.

Oddly enough, it wasn't until this revelation that I realized why the moog is set up like it is. you have to boost the signal into the filter to give it something to work with, and also to ensure the filter will open. The multi-color LED changes from green to yellow to orange to red to tell you how hot the signal is. I actually have also used the drive control to dirty up my sound without using the filter.

What's better? Depends on what sound you're after.

For sweeping an expression pedal like a wah I like the Xero better. Small, runs on 9V, true bypass....

For a low-pass style envelope filter? Moog. (though haven't tried the Xero Deluxe, wasn't available as an option when I bought mine)

For a LFO - controlled LPF with lots of options? Moog.

I'm still waiting patiently for the Bubble Chamber - with a filter as good-sounding as Xero with LFO control and all that's gonna be a blast.

CM

[M Sterling]

I actually had Adam at CopilotFX build me a custom LFO pedal specifically for controlling the cutoff freq on the Xerograph. It sounds pretty awesome. There are some clips on my soundcloud page if you wanna check it out.

[MarkyDynaBass]

thanks for the help M Sterling and all. put my order in on the Xerograph!! looking forward to getting it hopefully real soon.