Moogerfooger: Ring Mod versus Freq Box

[megadan]

So I've been googling this all afternoon but I'm still unsure...

right now I own the Moogerfooger Ring Mod and it's a great pedal.
But let's be honest with each other here, a ring mod isn't the most musically useful pedal - I love all its sounds but the majority aren't beneficial for a bass player playing in a band - I'm one of the lucky few in that my current band is firmly grounded in the noise tradition, with a good dose of pop and rock (think This Heat, Women, Black Mold, Sonic Youth, etc.) so I can make more use of the ring mod than most.

That being said the most frequent sound I end up using is basically a straight pitch sweep - with an expression pedal in the Frequency input, I keep the bass input pretty well blended and just do nice big sweeps at the end of songs. Sounds amazing through delay.


long story short, I'm wondering if the Freqbox will cover this sound and maybe do a little more with the Hard Sync for some slightly more in tune sounds.

I know the two concepts are a little different: the ring mod pitches are produced from the sum + difference of the input, whereas the Freqbox is just a straight VCO.
But since both are really just the guts of a Moog I'm expecting that same thick moog sweep.

Anyone compared the two, any thoughts? Does the Freqbox get the same full range sharp Moog sweep?

[bass.bert]

Originally Posted by megadan

But since both are really just the guts of a Moog I'm expecting that same thick moog sweep.

…don't worry, the oscillator sounds really fat! especially if you use it pure, not in hard sync mode. also the range is wide enough (but may depend on your expression pedal).
i never used a moog ringmod, so i can't compare these…

if you haven't found it yet, there are also some general reviews in the freqbox masterthread.

[rcubed]

Granted I haven't had them that long but I have both pedals and they seem to be completely different.

[megadan]

Originally Posted by rcubed

Granted I haven't had them that long but I have both pedals and they seem to be completely different.

See that's what I'm worried about. I've been watching a lot of videos and so far I haven't heard them produce the same sounds. To be honest I haven't really heard the Freqbox the way I want yet. Most of the videos on youtube are either using it alone or with a synth (so you can't tell what's what) or some guy with a guitar making crazy bleeps and noises that have nothing to do with any thing, heh.

I wish there was some where local I could try them out side by side!

[Zerstorte Zelle]

I own both. I love both. That being said they are very very different. The freq box is often buzzy and aggressive and you could liken it to a synth fuzz most of the time. Tamed with the low pass filter it does get warmer/rounder however it doesn't REALLY do a straight sine wave tone. I mean I guess it does but it isn't really "round synth sweep in a box" If you want your playing to gate the note so that it isn't just oscillating constantly you may find the "note" doesn't linger long enough. Just the opposite if you use the osc out. you cant stop it, unless you have a momentary
switch in line somehow.

The ring mod imo is warmer albeit a bit odder pitch wise.

I am sure none of this helps. It's hot and I can't think.

[megadan]

It's all good, it helps, kinda - in the sense that it is just making me want BOTH pedals But I don't think my wallet or my pedalboard can support two Moogerfoogers, which is why I raised the question...

I guess I won't truly know until I can actually hear the Freq Box in person. Time for a trip to Montreal soon, I guess.

[Wud]

To the OP,
Have you tried experimenting with the carrier in and out on the Ring Mod?

[megadan]

Originally Posted by Wud

To the OP,
Have you tried experimenting with the carrier in and out on the Ring Mod?

Not yet, but I want to! I'll sit down and do some more experimenting soon.

[G0rilla]

I would keep the ring mod. I have one for about 3 months, and it is one of my favorite and most used pedals. I use that sweep alot too, but main reason i got it, was nice tremolo and vibrato it has. Perfect for slow parts of the songs.
But one thing i found about this pedal, that it works really great with other filtering and modulation stuff. I use it with BMS, or fuzz->filter alot, it really adds to vibe that pedal does.

[rcubed]

Originally Posted by G0rilla

I would keep the ring mod. I have one for about 3 months, and it is one of my favorite and most used pedals. I use that sweep alot too, but main reason i got it, was nice tremolo and vibrato it has. Perfect for slow parts of the songs.
But one thing i found about this pedal, that it works really great with other filtering and modulation stuff. I use it with BMS, or fuzz->filter alot, it really adds to vibe that pedal does.

Agreed. I think the Ring Mod is a killer tremolo. Even better then my Semaphore.

[LowB-ing]

I don't agree that the ringmod and freqbox are totally different beasts. There are differences, sure, but there's alot of common ground too. To begin with the freqbox has a built in ringmod. Thats exactly what the FM knob is. You won't notice it much in sync mode, but turn sync off, crank FM amount and turn VCO freq up to taste. EDIT: Set waveform at minimum to get pure classic ringmodulation that's not drowned by fuzzy squarewaves.

FM = Frequency Modulation = ring modulation.

It doesn't have quite the crazy range of the Moog ringmod. It specifically will not get down into tremolo frequencies, but it's still capable of all the "normal" ringmod uses. You also don't have LFO control over the carrier, but instead you have envelope control! You also have extensive ciontrol over the carrier wave form. So, all in all a very capable ringmod actually.

[megadan]

Originally Posted by rcubed

Granted I haven't had them that long but I have both pedals and they seem to be completely different.

Originally Posted by LowB-ing

I don't agree that the ringmod and freqbox are totally different beasts. There are differences, sure, but there's alot of common ground too. To begin with the freqbox has a built in ringmod. Thats exactly what the FM knob is. You won't notice it much in sync mode, but turn sync off, crank FM amount and turn VCO freq up to taste. EDIT: Set waveform at minimum to get pure classic ringmodulation that's not drowned by fuzzy squarewaves.

FM = Frequency Modulation = ring modulation.

It doesn't have quite the crazy range of the Moog ringmod. It specifically will not get down into tremolo frequencies, but it's still capable of all the "normal" ringmod uses. You also don't have LFO control over the carrier, but instead you have envelope control! You also have extensive ciontrol over the carrier wave form. So, all in all a very capable ringmod actually.

Dang! So maybe the jury is still out.

Are there clips out there atm with the ringmod and the freq box side by side?

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by LowB-ing

I don't agree that the ringmod and freqbox are totally different beasts. There are differences, sure, but there's alot of common ground too. To begin with the freqbox has a built in ringmod. Thats exactly what the FM knob is. You won't notice it much in sync mode, but turn sync off, crank FM amount and turn VCO freq up to taste. EDIT: Set waveform at minimum to get pure classic ringmodulation that's not drowned by fuzzy squarewaves.

FM = Frequency Modulation = ring modulation.

It doesn't have quite the crazy range of the Moog ringmod. It specifically will not get down into tremolo frequencies, but it's still capable of all the "normal" ringmod uses. You also don't have LFO control over the carrier, but instead you have envelope control! You also have extensive ciontrol over the carrier wave form. So, all in all a very capable ringmod actually.

Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Ring Modulation is NOT Frequency Modulation. Ring Modulation is actually Amplitude Modulation (aka tremolo), which is then mixed with a dry signal, producing sum and difference outputs. This is distinct from Frequency Modulation (aka vibrato).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulator

[GregDunn]

Yup, a ring modulator produces something not unlike a double-sideband AM signal (depends on the modulation hardware/software to some extent).

[SFjonstarr]

I've got a friend who uses both and they seem quite different to my ears. Having the two of them opens up some cool capabilities though. For instance you can route the envelope CV out of the Freq Box into the frequency control on the Ring Mod. Lots of cool sounds to be had with some cable swapping.

[LowB-ing]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Ring Modulation is NOT Frequency Modulation. Ring Modulation is actually Amplitude Modulation (aka tremolo), which is then mixed with a dry signal, producing sum and difference outputs. This is distinct from Frequency Modulation (aka vibrato).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulator

Doh! Brainfart.
My limited understanding of FM synthesis is that it works in a very simillar way as a ringmod, but the latter is of course amplitude modulation. Turn up a tremolo very fast and you get ringmod, turn up a vibrato very fast and you get FM. They sound very simillar, because both work by creating sideband signals at equal distance above and below the input frequency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequen...tion_synthesis

"Therefore for each frequency component in the modulating signal, an upper sideband appears above Fc, and a lower sideband appears below Fc. A complex modulating waveform (containing more partials than a simple sinewave) will create sidebands corresponding to each of its sinewave components."

Anyway, the way to get ringmod type sounds out of the Freqbox is to turn sync OFF, turn FM to max and set VCO higher than center. Sync ON doesn't sound anything like this, so don't judge the Freqbox "ringmodability" on how sync on sounds.

[markjazzbassist]

just got my freqbox today, and yep, the frequency sweeps sound different on each pedal.

can't really describe it right now, my mind is being melted by the indepthness of the freqbox. have found a couple great sounds with the lowpass filter, now to recreate them....

[megadan]

Dang my Moog gas :O
it's so hard to find one of these suckers used, too. Always checking TB & TGP sigh!