Most compression?

lowendgenerator · #1 01-28-2009, 03:58 PM

I'm looking for the maximum amount of compression. I have 2 Alesis comps in my rigs, and with the ratio MAXED, I can't get enough compression. What do you recommend?

I need one rackmount and one footpedal.

I've read the monster page that Bongomania put together, but he didn't really go into depths about how much squeeze each compressor put on the signal.

So, what pedal puts the most torque on the signal?

Mingus Addict · #2 01-28-2009, 03:59 PM

Are you sure you not looking for a Limiter rather than a compressor?

kevteop · #3 01-28-2009, 04:01 PM

Get a limiter? If the ratio goes to infinity:1, you've got "the maximum amount" of compression.

JanusZarate · #4 01-28-2009, 04:01 PM

The name you're looking for is Bongomania.

And you can't get enough compression? What are you trying to achieve? This is probably the first time I've heard of this problem. Perhaps you're really looking for a limiter? Or maybe even heavy distortion (since heavy compression will produce a lot of distortion, in many cases, and distortion pedals naturally provide compression)?

With just a single compressor pedal, I can get so much squash that it's unbearable.

lowendgenerator · #5 01-28-2009, 04:08 PM

What I'm trying to achieve is even volume no matter how hard/soft I hit the strings. The crappy built in compressor on a Low-Down Line 6 combo amp has more compression than the 2 Alesis models I'm using. I've tried them before the amp, in the loop, and both make very little impact on the signal.

I remember a BOSS CS-5(?) Compression/Sustainer being much more up my alley, but are those bass friendly? I could get those things to make crazy sounds, but I don't remember how much bass signal got lost.

I have a BOSS LMB-2, and it really doesn't do what I want it to, I want to take all the peaks and valleys and flatten them out, not just knock down the tops. Does that make any sense?

JanusZarate · #6 01-28-2009, 04:23 PM

I think you're overlooking the simple but critical importance of technique in this equation. Too much compression, even if it gets you that dramatic lack of dynamics, can completely change your tone. You may not be satisfied with the results.

At any rate, you may need to look "up" as far as price goes...

JohnDavisNYC · #7 01-28-2009, 04:25 PM

yup. practice makes perfect.

or buy an 1176 and only use it in '4 button' mode with the fastest attack and release settings.

or a daking FET compressor II.

or practice.

john

lowendgenerator · #8 01-28-2009, 04:29 PM

Its not so much that my technique sucks, its about string to string volume differences, sufferenves in output between basses, and a little of my own poor technique lol.

JanusZarate · #9 01-28-2009, 04:32 PM

String-to-string volume differences and bass output differences? A compressor isn't going to solve that. It'll help, but it won't solve the problem. Your ideal solution involves much more than a simple stompbox / rack unit solution, IMO.

whoatherechunk · #10 01-28-2009, 04:34 PM

Sufferenves?

. too much compression is going to take away the quality/dynamics of your sound like mysticboo says (bongo...correct me if i'm wrong).

JustDavid · #11 01-28-2009, 04:40 PM

Trying before the amp rules out a parallel FX loop.

Looking at an Alesis 3630. Threshold set to Min? Attack time to Min? Release Max? Presuming you don't have Stereo Linking set. Peak/Rms or Hard/Soft shouldn't matter here.

beggar98 · #12 01-28-2009, 05:34 PM

String-to-string volume difference sounds more like a set-up issue than signal chain. Is your string height pretty even (from string to pick-up)? Are you playing in standard tuning? Are your pickups/strings/bridge sub-par? Are you using an inordinate amount of EQ?

bongomania · #13 01-28-2009, 08:19 PM

One of the reasons I don't describe that intensity of compression so much in my reviews is that it is so easy to get with so many devices. Seriously, it's most commonly easier to get too much compression than it is to get too little. The other big reason is that it usually sounds terrible. You haven't mentioned which specific Alesis unit's you're using. The Punch Factory is really weak, so if you're using that, no surprise there. If you're using a 3630, and can't get extreme compression from it, you're using it wrong. I have no love for the 3630, but it can squash the bejeezus out of your signal if you want.

Identify your signal levels. Make no assumptions. Then identify the ideal signal levels needed to optimally drive the processors you use. RTM, then monitor the LED readouts.

I'm thinking you read the reviews, but not the FAQ. To get the effect you want, you need a high ratio and a low threshold. The ratio is independent of your signal levels, but the threshold is completely dependent, hence the need to be very aware and particular about the levels at each point in the chain.

lowendgenerator · #14 01-28-2009, 09:06 PM

It looks like I've got some reading to do. Thanks for chiming in, your input is always appreciated.

I use a 3630 in the effects loop of my gk 1001, maybe I should go straight in on that one?

My other rig has a Nano compressor running before the amp. I don't have the manuals, so ill have to do some digging around. I'm sure they're in pdf format somewhere on the web.

lowendgenerator · #15 01-31-2009, 09:32 AM

A little update...

I re-read Bongo's amazing FAQ and learned a little bit more about how to use my compressors. I think I got confused on what the "Threshold" knob does. I kept it above 0db, and I think that's why I wasn't getting any squash. I turned it down to -10db and I was getting tons of compression. Problem solved, me thinks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by beggar98

String-to-string volume difference sounds more like a set-up issue than signal chain. Is your string height pretty even (from string to pick-up)? Are you playing in standard tuning? Are your pickups/strings/bridge sub-par? Are you using an inordinate amount of EQ?

My string height is even, but I'm rarely in standard tuning. One band it's drop D, the other is DGCF and drop C. I'm sure that has something to do with it. There's some parts that require some playing high up on the neck (think My Friend Of Misery) and without compression it's way louder than playing roots.

Of course part of it is my lack of technique. when I'm playing live, I'm usually pretty ramped up and acting like a maniac. It's hard to practice good technique when your flailing about like a madman. That's when heavy compression really helps.

Lastly, I switch between picks and fingerstyle quite often, and there's a big difference in dynamics without compression.

There, I think I'm done defending myself.

**DosiYanarchy** · #16 01-31-2009, 07:39 PM

cool, glad you got your issue sorted without having to resort to spending more money. I'm using a BBE optostomp, and even though it apparently doesnt really give strong compression (afaik) i find that past the half-way mark the compression is too strong for me and the tone just sounds a bit dead. In fact, i couldnt even notice the effect it actually had on my signal the way i have it set up until i was looking at the waveforms of recorded bass with and without the optostomp. Then I saw it was doing something, so it's earning its place on my board.

I've always been curious what super squished compression actually sounded like on bass.

bigblondeafro87 · #17 01-31-2009, 07:49 PM

Well notes higher up on the neck tend to sound bassier and louder, so you gotta play softer. I'm exactly like you in that at live situations I play with excessive force, but lately I've been working hard to fix that. Not only will your sound even out when you learn to control your right hand, but you will be able to play with greater dynamic range and should sound better.

bongomania · #18 01-31-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DosiYanarchy

I've always been curious what super squished compression actually sounded like on bass.

Tony Levin is the most common/famous example to listen to. I also think Larry Graham got compressed very heavily on many of his studio recordings, even though he didn't necessarily "use a compressor" as part of his personal bass rig.

**DosiYanarchy** · #19 01-31-2009, 08:16 PM

thanks bongo, i've got King Crimson's Dicipline and Beat - ill check them out. I've also got 'So' by Peter Gabriel on tape, i'll be sure to give that another listen.

**DosiYanarchy** · #20 01-31-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblondeafro87

Not only will your sound even out when you learn to control your right hand, but you will be able to play with greater dynamic range and should sound better.

so even though compression can kill dynamics, the proper use of it can expand them once you know how to work with compression?