Multi-effects. Are they all that?

[BigInThe80s]

After reading most of the 10 page thread regarding replacing pedals with
a multi-effect unit, one thing still is not clear to me: Do they sound just
as good as dedicated effects?

I am putting together another rig after a 20 year hiatus. My first impulse
is to go with a variation of my original setup style.

That requires a preamp, compressor, octave, crossover, delay, chorus,
distortion, mixer, cab simulator, noise gate, and direct box.

Obviously, the proper multi-effect unit could save me a lot of space in the rack
(and also avoid having to build another switcher). However, since I am a bit
OC about tone, I am concerned that I will end up with shelf full of multi-effects.

What is your feel on this? Should I try a POD or Boss? Or will I hurl it through
a window and still end up with an EBS chorus and a Big Muff?

ETA: And also a tuner of course. And probably a couple of things that I will think of later.

[dannybuoy]

I think you owe it to yourself to at least try a Line 6 X3 Live - it can process 2 parallel chains simultaneously, I've been wanting to try one myself!

If you do go for separates though, and you're not just after rack gear, I'd check out the [sfx] X&M which is a crossover/dual-fx-loop/mixer all in one pedal.

[rosstanium]

Just my opinion...dedicated pedals are what I find most useful for recording (I prefer analog overall...but some digitals are great)...I think the sound is still better than what's available in most multi-effects units.

However, the Line 6 m9 is damn good. For a live setting, where most people won't be able to tell the difference standing in the audience listening through a PA, it's replaced almost my entire board. It's so close to what I use with regards to quality overdrive, fuzz, octave, delays, synth, chorus, units that I feel totally comfortable and confident gigging with it.

Plus I'm not taking $1000 worth of pedals out of my home and risking them being stolen, broken, various liquids being poured on, other accidents, etc.

Definitely worth going to your local shop and experimenting for a while with it.

[BigInThe80s]

Originally Posted by dannybuoy

I'd check out the [sfx] X&M which is a crossover/dual-fx-loop/mixer all in one pedal.

Thank you very much for that. It is a pain having been out of the loop for so long.

I'm used to having a pretty big rack. It suppose that it is conceivable that I could
get everything on a pedalboard. However, I am also used to being able to create
my own monitor mix and tweak it on the fly - which is easier when it is in a rack.

[TheMutt]

I'd say that while digital modeling hasn't quite gotten to the level of sounding exactly like analog effects, there have been vast improvements in the past few years.

While not every effect on a multi-effect unit is sure to please you (unless you want a super versatile programmable multi effect of doom like the Fractal Audio Axe-Fx or the Eventide H8000FW, with extremely high prices to boot) you will probably find most of them sound pretty good.

My best suggestion would be to find one in store (or abuse Guitar Center or some other store's return policy) and sit down and go through all the effects that you would use on it so that you can see for yourself if you like it.

[d180fuzz]

Originally Posted by BigInThe80s

After reading most of the 10 page thread regarding replacing pedals with
a multi-effect unit, one thing still is not clear to me: Do they sound just
as good as dedicated effects?

No, they don't. They can't - ESPECIALLY if they're digital modelers. The synthetic sound, latency, and lack of any real "feel" will make that OCD flare up.

Originally Posted by BigInThe80s

I am concerned that I will end up with shelf full of multi-effects.

Highly likely - unless you don't buy any...

Originally Posted by BigInThe80s

Should I try a POD or Boss? Or will I hurl it through
a window and still end up with an EBS chorus and a Big Muff?

No, you shouldn't, and yes, you will. I would.



...sorry...not terribly helpful...just brutal honesty (IMHO, of course) from a pedal addict.

I'll also say that from the way you've worded your questions, you're looking to be convinced that a multi-effect will be "good enough", when deep down, I think you already know the answer.

[jgroh]

Depends on how OC you are about tone. For me, I am not doing alot of recording and gig a few times a month, so live sound is whats important to me. And like what already was said, 99.99% of the people in the audience couldnt tell the difference between a high end expensive pedal and a multi. If I was recording alot I would probably stick with individual high quality pedals, although the new M9 I bought is sounding really good to me though!

[BigInThe80s]

Originally Posted by d180fuzz

I'll also say that from the way you've worded your questions, you're looking to be convinced that a multi-effect will be "good enough", when deep down, I think you already know the answer.

Bingo.

I want to believe.

I have been messing around with in-ear monitors that have good isolation and
believe that I will no longer have to carry a power amp and cabinet just to hear
myself. So, my back thinks it would be great if I could just carry a soft bag
containing a POD and some cables.

Oh well. Time to harden up I guess.

[d180fuzz]

Originally Posted by jgroh

99.99% of the people in the audience couldnt tell the difference between a high end expensive pedal and a multi.

I've seen this line of reasoning cited pretty regularly here on TB, and maybe it's just me, but I DON'T GET IT. This is probably the same justification used when just after prohibition, the powerful breweries of the day (the ones that actually survived prohibition) decided to cut costs by adding cheap rice and removing flavorful (and more expensive) barley from their beer, or with MP3s and other codecs which destroy the audio quality of music...

As far as I'm concerned, there's also a sense of integrity lost in this attitude that to me is important. In all candor - I don't care if the audience can't tell the difference - I can, and that's what drives my decisions.

With regard to having your expensive pedals stolen or damaged at a gig - well, keep an eye on 'em then! Pretty simple, I think.

[jgroh]

Originally Posted by BigInThe80s

Bingo.

I want to believe.

I have been messing around with in-ear monitors that have good isolation and
believe that I will no longer have to carry a power amp and cabinet just to hear
myself. So, my back thinks it would be great if I could just carry a soft bag
containing a POD and some cables.

Oh well. Time to harden up I guess.

Nah, get a Markbass LMIII amp, and whatever neo cabinet and your back will be all saved up to lug around your pedalboard.

[waleross]

I am in a similar situation of returning back after a 25+ year hiatus. You didn't say what your rig is, which to me matters. I went with Fender and Ampeg. I am running in my rack a FenderTB1200 into either an 810E or a 410HLF. My rack back-up head is an old SVT400T,which sounds to me great
with-out any pedals as does the Fender. Its a whole new world of $$$ stuff that doesn't end. Most good pedals are $150 and up as you know. I have a few of the ones already mentioned. If I had to boil it down to (2) then I'd say:
VT BaSS,Tech21 and the Big Muff.....

[jgroh]

Originally Posted by d180fuzz

I've seen this line of reasoning cited pretty regularly here on TB, and maybe it's just me, but I DON'T GET IT. This is probably the same justification used when just after prohibition, the powerful breweries of the day (the ones that actually survived prohibition) decided to cut costs by adding cheap rice and removing flavorful (and more expensive) barley from their beer, or with MP3s and other codecs which destroy the audio quality of music...

As far as I'm concerned, there's also a sense of integrity lost in this attitude that to me is important. In all candor - I don't care if the audience can't tell the difference - I can, and that's what drives my decisions.

With regard to having your expensive pedals stolen or damaged at a gig - well, keep an eye on 'em then! Pretty simple, I think.

To each his own I guess. I personally dont use effects all that much, just mostly some overdrive on the harder rock tunes, chorus on a few, filter on one or two, and then whatever I feel like adding that particular night. So, I dont put that much emphasis on the effects because I could easily get by without them.

I didnt skimp on my basses, amps or cabs because IMO, those are more important to my sound. If a multi like the M9 I just purchased gives me very good tones in a small, easy to use package, thats good enough for me. Are the effects as good as my stompboxes, gotta tell you, they are equal to if not close IMO, so really this is moot.

[Pandafist]

Originally Posted by d180fuzz

I've seen this line of reasoning cited pretty regularly here on TB, and maybe it's just me, but I DON'T GET IT. This is probably the same justification used when just after prohibition, the powerful breweries of the day (the ones that actually survived prohibition) decided to cut costs by adding cheap rice and removing flavorful (and more expensive) barley from their beer, or with MP3s and other codecs which destroy the audio quality of music...

As far as I'm concerned, there's also a sense of integrity lost in this attitude that to me is important. In all candor - I don't care if the audience can't tell the difference - I can, and that's what drives my decisions.

With regard to having your expensive pedals stolen or damaged at a gig - well, keep an eye on 'em then! Pretty simple, I think.

:slowclap:

[d180fuzz]

Originally Posted by jgroh

To each his own I guess.

Indeed.

[gumtownbassman]

try the Boss GT-10B, you may end up with a tone off between that or a Line 6.

[BigInThe80s]

Originally Posted by waleross

You didn't say what your rig is, which to me matters.

If by rig you mean amp and cabinet, my opinion is probably a bit
contrarian when compared to most.

I decided somewhere around 1990 to only use normal power amps
and PA cabinets for my monitor. Why? Because I determined I was
kidding myself about what the crowd was hearing through the mains.

If I miked my cab, the mic was one more factor in coloring my sound
and there was no guarantee that the house speakers had anywhere
near the same frequency response as my cab.

So, I ran a line to the board from a DI and used my cab to monitor.
This solved the mic coloration issue, but was still deceptive as my cab
was optimized for bass and the house speakers still didn't have the
same frequency response.

That led me to using a standard power amp and a typical enclosure as
monitor. My goal was to have an identical signal going to the DI as to
my power amp and cab. That way, FOH was less tempted to mangle my
signal and I had a much more realistic idea what the crowd was hearing.

You still run into a sound "engineer" that has the highs rolled off on the
bass channel or a venue that has too much horsepower in the mids or
bass and makes everything wonky. I figure you can't win them all but
you might as well try.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by BigInThe80s

If by rig you mean amp and cabinet, my opinion is probably a bit
contrarian when compared to most.

I decided somewhere around 1990 to only use normal power amps
and PA cabinets for my monitor. Why? Because I determined I was
kidding myself about what the crowd was hearing through the mains.

If I miked my cab, the mic was one more factor in coloring my sound
and there was no guarantee that the house speakers had anywhere
near the same frequency response as my cab.

there's never any guarantee of that. but you know, it's funny...when i set up my amp and mic and i say to the soundman, "what you hear out of this amp is what i want to hear in the pa," 9 times out of 10, they do it for me without question, and i usually can't tell where the amp ends and the pa begins. and yes, i absolutely do get off the stage to hear during the course of most shows.

and for that rogue 10th time, it doesn't matter what you do because they're not going to give you what you want anyway.

not sure what it has to do with multi-effects, but since you brought it up and it's your thread...

[BigInThe80s]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

not sure what it has to do with multi-effects, but since you brought it up and it's your thread...

I blame waleross since he asked what my rig was. But yeah, I could have
(and probably should have) just said "a standard sound reinforcement amp
and cabinet".

As regards sound guys... In addition to being OC I might also be a bit of a control freak.

[Crystalman85]

Originally Posted by BigInThe80s

After reading most of the 10 page thread regarding replacing pedals with
a multi-effect unit, one thing still is not clear to me: Do they sound just
as good as dedicated effects?

I am putting together another rig after a 20 year hiatus. My first impulse
is to go with a variation of my original setup style.

That requires a preamp, compressor, octave, crossover, delay, chorus,
distortion, mixer, cab simulator, noise gate, and direct box.

Obviously, the proper multi-effect unit could save me a lot of space in the rack
(and also avoid having to build another switcher). However, since I am a bit
OC about tone, I am concerned that I will end up with shelf full of multi-effects.

What is your feel on this? Should I try a POD or Boss? Or will I hurl it through
a window and still end up with an EBS chorus and a Big Muff?

ETA: And also a tuner of course. And probably a couple of things that I will think of later.

There are some multi-effects processors that has decent sound quality. judging from what effects you has listed for your rig, the line 6 pod x3 live would be right up your ally.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by d180fuzz

I've seen this line of reasoning cited pretty regularly here on TB, and maybe it's just me, but I DON'T GET IT.

In all candor - I don't care if the audience can't tell the difference - I can, and that's what drives my decisions.

This strays slightly from the original question. But I wholeheartedly agree. The "audience can't tell" line was used in a recent "How much does tone matter?" thread. There might be no right answer or many right answers. But a happy bass player (because he likes his sound, can hear himself, just bought new underwear, or whatever) makes for a better bass player and a better band and a happier audience. It's the interconnectedness of the univeverse.