Multi-fx vs single pedal predicament

[JaggedBass]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking to buy some effects but I am conflicted between getting individual pedals vs a multi-fx unit. I will list my thoughts/concerns.

Individual pedals:

Pro:
I can buy the brand/model that I think sounds best for each specific effect.

Con:
Lacks ability to easily change settings on the fly since you can't save presets (with the exception of some digital pedals like SA's Soundblox Pro Multiwave Bass Distortion). Changing pedal settings during a song is difficult if not impossible. Changing settings between songs is just tedious.

Multi-fx:

Pro:
Can create and switch between multiple effects combinations and _settings_ for an individual effect on the fly by using presets

Con:
May have to sacrifice sound quality (subjective) on particular effects.

Since I don't have much experience using effects, I've been leaning towards the multi-fx unit since it will give me a lot of choices and flexibility. It will allow me to learn which effects I prefer, how I like to use them, how often I tweak settings, in what combinations, etc. If I decide that I can't get a particular sound I want no matter what, then I can just add a specialized individual pedal in the mix.

Here are the effects I'm currently considering:

Multi-fx:
Line 6 M13 (can you mix the dry signal in with all of the effects?)

Individual Pedals:
-Source Audio Soundblox Pro Multiwave Bass Distortion
-BOSS ODB-3 Bass Overdrive
-MXR M288 Bass Octave Deluxe (is this polyphonic?) EDIT: I guess I should be more clear. By polyphonic I mean does it track/work well when physically playing multiple notes on the bass simultaneously.
-MXR M82 Bass Envelope Filter (I'd consider the Source Audio one but I don't think it allows me to blend in the dry signal, I like the fat and natural tone of the MXR).
-Chorus?? (haven't done my research on brands/models yet, suggestions welcome)
-Phaser/Flanger?? (haven't done my research...)

Thanks.

[rr5025]

It seems like the M13 is pretty well liked around here, I'd say if you're just getting your feet wet into the world of effects going with a multi isn't a bad idea. The M288 is analog, for polyphonic you could look at the Micro POG or OC-3 or some others.

[JaggedBass]

Originally Posted by rr5025

It seems like the M13 is pretty well liked around here, I'd say if you're just getting your feet wet into the world of effects going with a multi isn't a bad idea. The M288 is analog, for polyphonic you could look at the Micro POG or OC-3 or some others.

Does that mean analog = not polyphonic? Or were you making two separate points (i.e. it's analogue and also happens to be monophonic)?

EDIT: I guess I should be more clear. By polyphonic I mean does it track/work well when physically playing multiple notes on the bass simultaneously.

[rr5025]

Originally Posted by JaggedBass

Does that mean analog = not polyphonic? Or were you making two separate points (i.e. it's analogue and also happens to be monophonic)?

EDIT: I guess I should be more clear. By polyphonic I mean does it track/work well when physically playing multiple notes on the bass simultaneously.

Sorry I suppose I got somewhat turned around there (probably not a good idea to start drinking in the afternoon). I recall someone doing a detailed thread on the OC-3 on here and saying it could handle multiple notes on one of the modes. I don't know about the M288. I do know my OC-2 does not like multiple notes. Sorry I couldn't be of more help there. More knowledgeable people will probably join soon and clear up the mess I've made!

[cheapbasslovin]

I strongly endorse and use a M13. It is (IMO) a great piece of gear, not just a good multi. The one caveat to that is while I think most of the effects sound good to great and are useable, some people are looking for the perfect everything. There will always be one individual pedal that you like better than the individual effects on the M13, but you wont find a better, more tweakable collection in any one place for anywhere near M13 money.

IMO the Octave on the M13 is comparable with anything on the market. It will warble if you play chords. Some of the pitch effects will hold with chords, but generally work best with 5ths. I've always liked the Small Stone for a phaser, inexpensive and sounds great.

You best try the ODB-3 before you buy. Love or hate, not a lot of in between. I always found mine difficult to use.

I don't know what to say about the rest.

Love my M13 still.

[Mo'Phat]

For me, it was a question of cost, flexibility, and usability.

The M13 was $500, plus the cost of the expression pedal, so guesstimate $600.

Your list of potential effects is already above that, even though you didn't specify a chorus and a phaser/flanger.

Most (not all) of the effects on the M13 have a dry blend. Line 6 generally tried to incorporate all the controls available on the original pedal in the model. So if the model had a dry blend, the M13 has a dry blend. There are 'artistic liberties' where they added dry blend to some effects that never had it...but not all of the effects have dry blend.

Concur that some of the pitch shifts will warble when playing chords. Some models better than others for that.

Usability...I love that I have 80+ effects available to just mess with. I love playing with the onboard looper, even though I'll most likely never use it with my band. I have found 24 very usable effects that are all unique and act as single stompboxes...and have another 120 other pedal locations available for more unique stompboxes. All noise-free, cable-free and true-bypass...with hugely programmable expression parameters...and a 28 second looper. All for just $600.

[Jared Lash]

I'd go with something like the M9 and see how it does for you. If (like me) you find it lacking in some areas you can later supplement with individual pedals. Or you may be completely satisfied and want to move up to the M13. Either way it's a cost effective way to see which direction you ultimately want to go.

Some notes on your pedals:

Originally Posted by JaggedBass

Individual Pedals:
-BOSS ODB-3 Bass Overdrive

Have you tried or heard the ODB-3? It's a VERY distinctive dirt pedal. IMO it's a pedal that really fits in a small number of applications and doesn't work for most.

Originally Posted by JaggedBass

-MXR M288 Bass Octave Deluxe (is this polyphonic?) EDIT: I guess I should be more clear. By polyphonic I mean does it track/work well when physically playing multiple notes on the bass simultaneously.

No analog octaver is polyphonic. The EBS is the best at dealing with multiple notes and it's terrible at it. If you want polyphonic then you want digital. The POG perhaps.

Originally Posted by JaggedBass

-MXR M82 Bass Envelope Filter (I'd consider the Source Audio one but I don't think it allows me to blend in the dry signal, I like the fat and natural tone of the MXR).

The MXR is a great filter but two things it is NOT are fat and natural. It's a bandpass filter which means that it (1) kills low end and (2) has a very snappy, pop-like response. It has a clean blend because otherwise it would be entirely too thin in the mix. I haven't tried the Source BEF but since it is modelling 2 pole & 4 pole LPFs and envelope phasers I doubt there'd be much low end loss, if any. As for natural sounding, it sounds good from the clips but obviously it's a digital pedal.

Originally Posted by JaggedBass

-Chorus?? (haven't done my research on brands/models yet, suggestions welcome)

Depends on whether you want a watery or icy sounding chorus and whether you want subtle or thick. What you'll be using it for is a big part of it.

Originally Posted by JaggedBass

-Phaser/Flanger?? (haven't done my research...)

Again, depends on the music you play and what you want it for. You'll get a lot of good recommnendations if you supply more background info.

[gumtownbassman]

Try out the Boss GT-10B, great quality effects, tons of control options, and great Preamps and XLR outputs if want to plug direct to P.A. too.

[kevteop]

I usually prefer single stomp boxes but I got an M9 to stick at the end of my chain intending to use it to cover all the effects I rarely use but are nice to have (chorus, phaser, flanger, delay, etc.).

Of course true to form I've ended up hardly using any of those but I've got a lot of mileage out of the pitch shifter, harmoniser, comps and dirts, even the synths.

IMO the weakest aspect of it is the filters, especially if you want to use it as an envelope-following filter. There's no input sensitivity control which renders them pretty much useless. But there's nothing stopping you from adding other pedals for specific purposes.

[JaggedBass]

The MXR is a great filter but two things it is NOT are fat and natural. It's a bandpass filter which means that it (1) kills low end and (2) has a very snappy, pop-like response. It has a clean blend because otherwise it would be entirely too thin in the mix. I haven't tried the Source BEF but since it is modelling 2 pole & 4 pole LPFs and envelope phasers I doubt there'd be much low end loss, if any. As for natural sounding, it sounds good from the clips but obviously it's a digital pedal.

I'm not up and up on the lingo. I watched Uriah Duffy's demo on YouTube and I thought it sounded pretty great. The ~10 min source audio demo made me hopeful but all other clips I saw left me disappointed; something was just missing (maybe a lack of dry signal blended in?) I really liked the negative sweeps on the SA unit.
Duffy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j_WqyHJaoQ.

As far as the ODB-3 I'm basing my opinion on the sound check video on YouTube. I really like the sounds in that. Again, I think a big factor is the dry signal being blended in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7rZWOvG7jA

I also really enjoy the tone in this video (not ODB-3): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9djDf7S2xQ

I will consider the M9. My thoughts are that if I completely satisfied with this unit and becomes a main component in my effects chain then I would love to have the robust interface of the M13.

Unfortunately, I don't have the means to really try any of these units personally.

I'm mostly into Funk and solo bass, progressive metal, and avant-gard

[JaggedBass]

So I looked through a bunch of the manuals and more threads.

I guess a common issue is OD/fuzz/distortion on Bass losing the low-end. There seem to be no bass-specific patches on the M9/M13 for these types of effects and ADDITIONALLY there is no dry/wet blend. Almost every single effect on this unit except ALL the distortion patches have mix control. Firmware update??

Man, if the M9 had an FX Loop, it'd be so easy to choose that one. So I have to ask myself if one extra simul effect, independent displays, and FX loop are worth $150 or if that can go towards my SA Multiwave Bass Distortion (I think I'm almost certainly getting this, it's too damn cool) or other supplementary single pedal. Money may not be much of an issue b/c the holidays are approaching....

[gumtownbassman]

Originally Posted by gumtownbassman

Try out the Boss GT-10B, great quality effects, tons of control options, and great Preamps and XLR outputs if want to plug direct to P.A. too.

I still recommend looking at the GT-10B, the effects are specially for bass, including the distortions with their direct blend.

[Ursus Tyrannus]

I don't like multi effects units, but thats me, its personal taste, they seem to suffer the "jack of all trades, master of none" syndrome. Your concern seems to be switching and I wanted to recommend for consideration my approach. I love using effects and changing them on the fly so I have a ton of pedals and have multiples of nearly every effect. For example, for distortion I have a ProCo Rat, Boss ODB-3, DOD FX91 Bass Overdrive, and an EHX Russian Big Muff Pi. I paid $110 (but the Rat WAS free I admit) for all four distortions and can bounce between 4 levels of distortion in a single song. I have tons of pedals and with board, power, and patch cables I am into it aprox $650-$675 cash wise. The Line 6 M13 new is a $500 lump sum expense. I spread out my pedal purchases over three and a half months. I made the board myself and bought a bag of 15 decent patch cords for $25 at an estate sale. You will have to wait unlike with buying the M13 and have to work at getting some things at a low price but it took me only three months to find everything I needed... 2 phasers, 2 octaves, 2 auto wah/envelope follower, 4 distortion/overdrive/fuzz, 2 tremolo, 2 chorus, 2 delay, a flange, a synth, a harmonizer, a compressor, and an EQ. 21 and counting. All bought cheaply used. If you have the money now you can get most everything quickly and unlike a multi effects unit you can keep adding more variations and tailor your board more to your taste and needs. Plus the tweakability is another thing, and you can rearrange the pedals too! Pedal A into pedal B will not usually sound at all the same reversed. Ever hear an octave fighting a distorted auto wah run into a harmonizer then octave that mess again run into a phaser?...THATS avant-garde! Not saying my way is better, just an option to consider.

[Swift713]

If I were starting from scratch I'd go for the M9. The self contained flexibility really appeals to me. As it is, I'm pretty committed to my current pedals but some day (after the recession?) would like to add an M9 or something of a similar ilk.

[cheapbasslovin]

FWIW you could get a Boss LS-2 for about 90 new or 50-60 ish used (maybe cheaper if you're patient). That would solve your low end loss problem if you bought a M# and would also work to do the same thing with individual distortion pedals unless your distortion pedal inverts phase (look up phase inversion, I don't have time to type it all up here).

The problem is none of the answers in this thread are wrong. I started with a multi (Boss ME50b), burned through a bunch of individual pedals, and have currently settled on the M13, a Badger Schism (similar to a Boss LS-2), and an English Muff'n as a preamp. Many started with a multi, and would never go back after using single pedals. Some started with singles and hate playing with multis, and some started with singles and now use multis for their convenience. A lot of people also use the M9 to compliment a pretty extensive board to cover the 'everything else' needs that they don't need every third song but still want at their finger tips. It sucks because definitive answers come few and far between in this deal, but it's no different than basses or amps in that way.

If you get a chance, run down to a store and play with an M9 or 13 and probably a few individuals to get a short feel for the quality, sound, and usability of both.

Good Luck.

[gastric]

If I had to choose a multieffects for bass it would be the BOSS GT-10B. There's a couple used ones in the effects forum right now from $300-$350 shipped. Overall it's way more usable on bass than the Line6 offerings. I do find the dirt/fuzz to be better sounding on the Line6, and the Line6 has some more experimental type effects offered. But for your synth and bread-n-butter effects the GT-10B is the way to go. It also includes an effects loop so you can patch in other gear, as well as the ability to control external MIDI gear. Seriously, overall its really superior regarding usability, features, and general sound over the Line6.

Your other alternative is a Line6 M9 for whatever effects you find useful in there, and supplement with some dedicated pedals. There's not a lot of good bass filtering (no auto-wah at all, no particularly good sounding bass wahs) in the Line6, only one remotely usable compressor, etc., etc.

[gastric]

Also, another "con" towards individual pedals is now you have to power them, connect them with cables, mount them to a board for easy portability. All of that quickly jacks up the cost well beyond just the pedals themselves.

[dokazaado]

keep this in mind - it's extremely difficult to use a multi-fx unit while on mushrooms. I like knobs with one function and one function only.

[JaggedBass]

Originally Posted by dokazaado

keep this in mind - it's extremely difficult to use a multi-fx unit while on mushrooms. I like knobs with one function and one function only.

I will be sober for the majority of my playing

[dokazaado]

ok, then multi-fx might work for you.