Multi vs. Singles: an observation

[RickenBoogie]

Breifly- been a bassist for decades, have switched to full-time synth, part time bass in my newest project band. Have been a single fx box user for years, and have a nice board of goodtimes- BUT, wanted to try an all-in-one for convienence. So, I bought the TC Electronics Nova System, thinking it may provide everything I need in one handy pedal.
One by one, I went through all the different effects on this thing, (I bought the limited edition red model), and one by one I was disapointed with the quality of sound. For instance, the most glaring difference was with the modulation effects, chorus/phaser/flanger- my Maxon 9 series pedals are 1000 times better sounding. Even the delays, (which TC is famous for) are lacking compared to a Boss DD-20.
Anyway, just an observation, I had thought maybe multi's have come far enough along to be worthwhile, but the fact is, if you care about your tone, *really* care about your tone- individual stomp boxes are still king- even if it means carrying a bulky board full of them.

[cheapbasslovin]

I respectfully disagree. Some would say if you really care about your tone you would just go bass->cable->amp. Others would say that only analog effects sound good. Still others would say that you can't get a good dirty sound without tubes.

I take joy in finding tones and massaging them to suit me. I find many tones in a multi. Does that mean that I don't 'really' care about my tone?

[kb9wyz]

I gotta say, tone is important to me. But there is, I think, a virtue to both a totally pure tone and appropriate effects. I think that if an effect is not obvious in the mix, but adds something, then you can still claim to have a "pure" tone. Like a compressor, or a chorus set low.

I am a minimalist, as a result, and so having a multi is a burden to me because I only want like 2 effects at all. Rather, I like the idea of having a small pedal board with the couple effects that I really like. It's easy to turn them on and off and that makes me happy. Presently, I only have tuner, chorus, preamp on my board.

[Swift713]

I don't think it has to be an either/or question. I've used both, separately and simultaneously. If you've got a specific tone you're shooting for you're not as likely to find it in a multi but if you're just looking for a convenient pallet you may be fine with one. I had a fine time with the Zoom B2 for quite a while and was pretty happy with the tones I could get out of it. After I got lured into the world of singles I started having specific tonal goals or expectations that were harder to satisfy with a multi. Nothing else sounds or behaves quite like "X." On the other hand, the M5 (for instance) is a handy way to get a slew of pedals that may not be your favorites but are nice to have available. I found the "octave fuzz" makes a nice sort of synthy sound paired with my envelope filter and the "boost comp" can make some cool dirty squashed tones. I wouldn't buy either of these effects as singles but I'm happy I found them along with everything else in there.

[RickenBoogie]

Yeah, re-phrase is in order. I'm not saying multi-fx suck, or that *your* ears aren't as good as mine- rather, I had hoped to be satisfied with a quality, (and expensive) multi, and was sorely disapointed with it. For me, and my tonal goals, the board full of singles cannot be replaced with a multi. It's also worth noting, my bass guitar pedalboard is comprised of a tuner, an eq pedal, compressor, and DI box- period. The large board is used with keyboard synths, and I'll occasionally play bass through them as well.

[cheapbasslovin]

I'll buy that. A multi cannot (or at the least will face an uphill battle to) replace singles that have been selected for a set of ears or specific purpose.

That is why my Muff'n stays on the board (can't seem to replace that), the M13 covers the rest.

[Shish]

i thought M9 would cover all my needs in modulation. but than i had Moog phaser for a few days to play with and i was sooooo disappointed cause none of the phasers in it was even close to Moog. same for tremolo. so i sold it and the only thing i miss is the looper which i haven't bought in separate pedal. there are also a lot of people who like M9 so it's just your taste.

[PilbaraBass]

I don't think you can lump all multi's together anymore than you could single effects.

The evidence is clear that some are better than others.

I use a zoom b2.1u. Have been for about 5 years, now. I couldn't be happier with it. So much, in fact, that I bought a 2nd one for a backup.

If I need a particular sound, I can usually get it. Sure, sometimes it takes a bit of work and tweaking, but the thing is usually flexible enough that I can get it.

But, the advantage of the singles is clear. You can tailor your signal chain exactly the way you need to and put in exactly what you want and some single pedals are just AMAZING!

But, for me, the advantages of a multi are overwhelming. 1) I have many effects at my disposal. 2) Changing to completely different sounds is instantaneous, one click away, usually as I arange my patches to suit the performance (I keep one bank clear for this purpose). 3) For <$200 I can pretty much cop what >$1000 worth of a pedal board can get me. and finally 4) I've spent so much time with this particular device that it has become my friend.

Mind you, as satisfied as I am with the zoom, there are a still few singles that I'd love to have on hand. (SourceAudio Bass Filter Pro and Fender Sublime for a start )

Which brings me to my final point...For the best of both worlds, get yourself a good-sounding, versatile multi and fill in the necessary gaps with singles. It really doesn't pay to live in one school or the other.

[slaphappychappy]

10 Pedals looks way cooler than 1.

[darkstorm]

Ive heard and owned great multi effects and played ones I didnt like at all. Same for seperate pedals. For the sounds I want: comp, overdrive, ring mod, 6-8 band eq, occssional echo/delay, occassional chorus or phaser, and a little bit of room reverb, I find the upper end Zoom multi's cant be beat. Getting similiar sound from seperates would cost a whole lot more then the B9.1ut by zoom and would not give me as good a signal to mixer.

Multis are like synths in some ways for the presets. Most presets arent that good and tweaking them is required for real sound satisfaction. Key is to find a multi that does the effects you want in the way you want them to. If out of 6 overdrives onboard, you really like 1 or 2 of them & dont care for the rest, then alls still good. Same for chorus etc etc. When I try synths I look for a few premium really liked voices knowing most of the presets prob wont awe me. And for the synth to be oriented to what I'm wanting. (psytrance to dark ambient and electronica in general orientation).

Just as a comparrison, out of the 12 most popular overdrive pedals out there, theres only going to be 1 or 2 I really like.

Ive tried tc electronic stuff and wasnt that wowed by them either. Good product, but just not my flavor for things. Lol.

[bassbrad]

Dunno why it always has to be one or the other to me it makes sense to use whatever gets it done. a well tuned multi can be a great tool especially for combinations of effects that can be preset for recall.

[brndn123]

Use both. Pick your go-to single units and use the multi-fx unit for everything else. Think of the tonal possibilities!

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

..but the fact is, if you care about your tone, *really* care about your tone- individual stomp boxes are still king- even if it means carrying a bulky board full of them.

I can pretty much guarantee that there are a ton of songs that you absolutely love the tone of that used multieffects to get them. It usually just requires a lot more time than people want to spend to dial in great sounds. It's also usually quite expensive- we've been listening to fantastic tones from multis for years from guys like Belew, Vai, Gilmour, etc.....but they were usually playing through very expensive multis.

Also, the DD-20 is a digital pedal- there's nothing to it that couldn't be exactly copied by the TC multi or any other multi if they wanted to do it. If you like the sound of the DD-20 better, it's probably because you like the sound of those delays over the delays TC makes. Nothing to do with individual vs. multi.

[GizmoTheOne]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Breifly- been a bassist for decades, have switched to full-time synth, part time bass in my newest project band. Have been a single fx box user for years, and have a nice board of goodtimes- BUT, wanted to try an all-in-one for convienence. So, I bought the TC Electronics Nova System, thinking it may provide everything I need in one handy pedal.
One by one, I went through all the different effects on this thing, (I bought the limited edition red model), and one by one I was disapointed with the quality of sound. For instance, the most glaring difference was with the modulation effects, chorus/phaser/flanger- my Maxon 9 series pedals are 1000 times better sounding. Even the delays, (which TC is famous for) are lacking compared to a Boss DD-20.
Anyway, just an observation, I had thought maybe multi's have come far enough along to be worthwhile, but the fact is, if you care about your tone, *really* care about your tone- individual stomp boxes are still king- even if it means carrying a bulky board full of them.

Why do you think people are still carrying bulky boards full of singles? Ease of use, probably. Tone, if they prefer the tone of singles rather than multi.

As far as I'm concerned, I find multis more versatile, complete and gig-friendly than a "singles" board. Actually cheap also, when you think of all the money you can spend on getting a good board.
My GT-10B does everything I need.
Overall, for $500 (new), I have :
Tuner
Awesome compressor
Good ODs/Dist's with the option of crossing over or blending
EQ
Wahs
Synths (not so good synths, but anyways I don't use them)
A handful of cool filter effects
Tremolo
Phaser
Flanger
Chorus
Delay
Reverb
2 Noise Gates
Amp models (not that great either, but not bad)
A looper
An expression/volume pedal that can be assigned to any effect/parameter
Amp channel switcher
Fx loop
MIDI in/out, digital out, USB, DI out
The option of customizing my signal path
The option of switching multiple effects at the same time (which would require a MIDI controller or something like that without having a multi)
2 channels available so you can blend or divide multiple paths.

Plus, when I took the time to fiddle with it a bit, I realized that I can get very nice tones out of this thing, but it needs learning a couple of things and experimenting a lot, which some don't want /have the time to do.
It's not about caring for your tone, it's about getting what you want for as less money as possible. Some prefer multis, some prefer singles.

I prefer multis cause of their versatility and value. Some will argue my phaser doesn't sound as good as their Nano Small Stone, or other single phaser. I don't care, it sounds like a phaser, and I'm able to make it sound good to me. That's what I wanted.

[Matt Dean]

I have to agree with the OP.

[Radek]

Originally Posted by GizmoTheOne

Why do you think people are still carrying bulky boards full of singles? Ease of use, probably. Tone, if they prefer the tone of singles rather than multi.

There is another often overlooked aspect: singles aren't ideally controllable as digital multieffects. You have to dial in your sound every time and it'll be a bit different every time...
Digital allows for ideal saving and recalling presets every time. This can be seen as a monotony by some and too comforting.

Originally Posted by GizmoTheOne

Plus, when I took the time to fiddle with it a bit, I realized that I can get very nice tones out of this thing, but it needs learning a couple of things and experimenting a lot, which some don't want /have the time to do.

Time is money too. If someone can get desired result faster using singles than what (s)he extra spent instead getting MFX may be well worth that.

Actually there must be some who aren't that efficient in either but still being satisfied.

Originally Posted by GizmoTheOne

It's not about caring for your tone, it's about getting what you want for as less money as possible.

It's more than that IMHO (but money is important of course). It's about ideas - different tools may affect results in different ways.

[Joe Nerve]

Not much of an effects guy, but I've been through a lot of singles, and an equal amount of multi effects. I'm in agreement with Darkstorm on the zooms. Just bought a B91ut, and I think I'd be hardpressed to match that up (especially price wise) with any combination of pedals. There is a ton of stuff going on in that unit, and while I haven't fiddled with it for long, I'm pretty satisfied with the quality and tweakability of all the sounds. Especially the synth sounds which are the only usable ones I've heard yet out of all the multi effects I've owned.

[Medford Bassman]

I tried some multi effects like the Zoom and a BassPod XT.

I got to be honest, I didn't care for them. The digital effects didn't impress me but more so, they were overwhelming to me. So much to learn and to figure out how to create custom sounds and save them. I always had problems with that. Sold them both.

Right now I'm a very limited effects guy, Volume pedal, Chorus, VT Bass. That's more my speed.

My guitarist uses a borrowed pedal board instead of an amp because he's a little lazy. The custom sounds were already programmed in by the owner and myself.

Again, nothing wrong with them if you have the inclination to learn what they can do. I like simple knob turning and be done with it.

[Swift713]

Last winter I had an M9 and I liked it well enough but the possibilities were a bit overwhelming (plus the lack of dedicated looper controls was a bit of a drag). Now I've got an M5 and I'm finding it easier to focus and dial in some nice tones. It can take a long time to dial in a multi, it's a lot easier to focus on one single pedal at a time. I like 'em both.

[Matt Dean]

Call me old school (or call me old), but I think the ergonomics of separate pedals (with knobs) on a board work for me better than a multi.