Multiband Equalisers for Bass

[magic papa]

Hi,

I need some opinions on using multi-band equalisers for bass. I'm talking about live situations, not studio. Do you use them or do you usually find the Low-Mid-Treble stack in amps sufficient?

Sometimes I have difficulty getting right sound. This depends on bass, room etc, but I often have no luck with the tone stack in the amp (got no built-in multi band-EQ in some amps).

If you were to use multi-band EQ (graphic or parametric) - what would be worth considering? I know Boss makes GEB-7 stompbox that seems to have some credentials. Is there anything else available? How about the rack-mount DBX stuff? Would it be good with bass and where would you put it - effects loop perhaps?

What I primarily need it for is to occasionally get rid of too much boom or honk and/or filter out finger and string noise. Can't seem to be able to do the last one without muddying the sound, so perhaps somethig more selective would be a better choice.

Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

MP

[scubaduba]

The Boss is fine. I use the MXR 6-band

[NoiseNinja]

I use the MXR 10 band.

[bongomania]

I'm a big pusher for parametric EQ, if what you want is correction for a room; graphic EQ's are only mediocre for this purpose. The Empress Para EQ pedal is the top dog at this job. The Fromel Shape EQ is called parametric, but it's meant for broad tone shaping, not corrective work. A cheap option worth checking out is the Presonus EQ3B, which is not a pedal but it's very small and will work on a pedalboard.

If you really want a graphic EQ, check out the new EQ pedal from Source Audio, because it is designed to be much more customizable and flexible than a typical graphic EQ.

[magic papa]

Originally Posted by NoiseNinja

I use the MXR 10 band.

Oh yeah, I've forgotten about these. For some reason I was looking for bass equilisers, but it wouldn't matter as long as it covers the right frequencies.

Do you plug it before the amp or in the effects loop? I always thought the right place would be just before the poweramp (i.e. in the effects loop), but it needs enough headroom to handle hotter signal. The MXR ones are 18V, so there should be plenty of headroom.

Has anybody tried DBX 131 on bass? The 31-band is probably a massive overkill, but the price is good

[NoiseNinja]

Yeah, it has both a level and a gain control, so you should be able to control the level input as well, making it suitable after a preamp too. As there is no effect loop on my amp I use it right before the preamp. I know some people would use it first in the chain, but I like the way it shapes the tone of my fuzz and other pedals.

[magic papa]

Originally Posted by NoiseNinja

Yeah, it has both a level and a gain control, so you should be able to control the level input as well, making it suitable after a preamp too. As there is no effect loop on my amp I use it right before the preamp. I know some people would use it first in the chain, but I like the way it shapes the tone of my fuzz and other pedals.

First in the chain probably wouldn't be that useful unless you want to use it for shaping the tone of a bad bass. It's the stuff added by preamps, effects and tone stacks that usually needs some surgical correction, so I'd be keen to try it in effect loop.

I laways tought the rack-mount devices are more suited for use in effect loops becasue they accept line input levels of signals. Stompboxes are typically too easy to overdrive, but with gain control in the pedal should help.

[andrewalexander]

I have a GEB-7, and it works fine for me. I use it last in my effects chain, but right before my BBE Sonic Stomp. I use the equalizer to really boost my high-end, for higher-register bass riffs, and combined with the sonic maximizer, the highs cut through really well.

[JT_Copy9]

I recently picked up a dbx 2 channel 15-band eq. It covers more than the bass frequencies, but... I use the 2nd channel for vocals. I have this inline after a behringer 4-channel (wanted the 2 channel, but they were out of stock) compressor/ limiter/ gate. This plus my amp head and inline rackmount tuner/ metronome (and rack stage light) and now I can manage my tones very very easily. Even after spending many hours setting up everything, when I play, I still only have to mess with the EQ on the bass itself. Rarely do I have to approach my rack and touch the EQ. Sometimes when I am playing with a chorus (which I have as a pedal) I will throw on my Parametric EQ immediatley inline after the chrous to accent places in the sweep that I want to accent.

[BigOldHarry]

I tend to leave everything pretty flat and EQ on my bass on the fly, depending on the venue/room... so I guess I have no need for a GEQ of any sort.

[stflbn]

Originally Posted by bongomania

If you really want a graphic EQ, check out the new EQ pedal from Source Audio, because it is designed to be much more customizable and flexible than a typical graphic EQ.

Only I don't think the Source Audio EQ is out yet 'is it?'
Not seeing it on their website anyhow... last I heard it was June/July.

[thesilence]

I use the graphic eq on my amp, I find that its best to make small changes and cut rather than boost to get a good sound

[colicab]

Originally Posted by bongomania

I'm a big pusher for parametric EQ, if what you want is correction for a room; graphic EQ's are only mediocre for this purpose.

...go on...

[papasound]

I recently picked up one of these (Tascam PE-40) for around $100 at my local Mom & Pop music store. The 4 channels have independent in-outs or can be daisy chained.

As it accepts line level inputs only I'll use the effects send/return on my amp. If it sounds good I may even try to rig up some kind of 4 button stomp switch to route each channel separately.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by stflbn

Only I don't think the Source Audio EQ is out yet 'is it?'
Not seeing it on their website anyhow... last I heard it was June/July.

True.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by colicab

...go on...

Let's say you have a wolf note or feedback requiring a very steep (like 24 dB/oct) cut centered at 160 Hz. Then let's say your graphic EQ has 15 dB/oct slopes, and the nearest sliders are at 120 Hz and 200 Hz. Clearly that's not going to kill the feedback without also decimating everything from around 80 Hz to 240 Hz, give or take, due to the slopes.

Now, every graphic EQ has different slopes and different frequency centers per slider, so the above example is just an illustration of one case. But a parametric EQ has adjustable frequency centers and adjustable bandwidth, allowing you to pinpoint and kill the feedback or boom in any room.

Also, every band of EQ has some phase artifacts where it overlaps with the bands on either side. The more bands you have, the more artifacts there are; with a many-band graphic EQ, this can be heard as a slight mushiness or unfocused quality to the sound. That's one reason why most pro studios use parametric EQ instead of graphic: fewer bands = cleaner sound.

[chuck norriss]

re: frequencies, i ripped the following from a behringer post. you might notice some 6-band eq's range from 100Hz > 3khz; while bass eq's have a broader spectrum. see:

How the specific frequency bands of the BEQ700 can shape your sound

*

50 Hz (sub-bass)

Boost: To thicken up sub-bass content, which is mostly felt rather than heard

Cut: To eliminate stage “rumble” and sub-bass content that can rob sound system power
*

120 Hz (soft bass)

Boost: To enhance the lower end of the bass spectrum

Cut: To reduce the tendency of low frequency content to overwhelm a small room
*

400 Hz (hard bass)

Boost: To enhance the “hard” bass punch of fundamental tones

Cut: To reduce punch for better linkage with the kick drum
*

500 Hz

Boost: or Cut: To control bass clarity and warmth
*

800 Hz

Boost: To add an aggressive edge to the overall bass sound

Cut: For reducing somewhat nasal or horn-like content
*

4.5 kHz

Boost: To make the bass cut through the mix. Creates a more distinctive plucked tone

Cut: To eliminate harshness
*

10 kHz

Boost: To bring out the upper harmonics and add edge to the overall bass tonality

Cut: Apply a cut to reduce harsh high-frequency content or hiss


Bass Guitar Frequency Range

[chuck norriss]

@ bongomania
thanks

boss makes or made a bass parametric eq. ive seen one used but it was $$$. markbass superbooster is similar to an eq + boost. had a chance to fiddle with one last weekend. dont know to describe that as eq or parametric eq--dont know how it works but shapes souds pretty well.

[chuck norriss]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Let's say you have a wolf note or feedback requiring a very steep (like 24 dB/oct) cut centered at 160 Hz. Then let's say your graphic EQ has 15 dB/oct slopes, and the nearest sliders are at 120 Hz and 200 Hz. Clearly that's not going to kill the feedback without also decimating everything from around 80 Hz to 240 Hz, give or take, due to the slopes.

Now, every graphic EQ has different slopes and different frequency centers per slider, so the above example is just an illustration of one case. But a parametric EQ has adjustable frequency centers and adjustable bandwidth, allowing you to pinpoint and kill the feedback or boom in any room.

Also, every band of EQ has some phase artifacts where it overlaps with the bands on either side. The more bands you have, the more artifacts there are; with a many-band graphic EQ, this can be heard as a slight mushiness or unfocused quality to the sound. That's one reason why most pro studios use parametric EQ instead of graphic: fewer bands = cleaner sound.

Originally Posted by papasound

I recently picked up one of these (Tascam PE-40) for around $100 at my local Mom & Pop music store. The 4 channels have independent in-outs or can be daisy chained.

As it accepts line level inputs only I'll use the effects send/return on my amp. If it sounds good I may even try to rig up some kind of 4 button stomp switch to route each channel separately.

looks fun. let us know how it turns out.

[Bassmanmike1]

Originally Posted by magic papa

Has anybody tried DBX 131 on bass? The 31-band is probably a massive overkill, but the price is good

Just got one of these yesterday. For $159.00 plus tax I couldn't say no. My rack is at the studio where we practice so I have not had a chance to install it yet. I played around with it a little bit here at home with a little Roland 60 I use to practice with. The Roland 60 has an effects loop and a EQ defeat button, so I was able to cut out the internal tone stack and just use the DBX and was quite satisfied with the results. We don't practice again until next Tuesday so I wont have a chance to hear it in my big rig until then. I'll try to check back next week with a review when I've played around with it a little bit.