Mutron Biphase Clone?

[quadrogong]

Has anyone gotten ahold of anything
Yet?
Those old Mutron Phasers sound so unique.. Has Anyone actually cloned these authentically yet?

Hey Mutron..!
I'd love a reissue!

[Taylor Livingston]

(Haven't played one, just looking at the schematic)

In principle, there's nothing too tricky about it, but you're probably unlikely to see a pedal clone since it's a somewhat large circuit.

The phasers are each 6-stage opamp allpass filters, and the varying resistance elements are light dependent resistors. One one hand, this will be less distortion-prone than Phase 90-type circuits (JFETs), but on the other hand, optocouplers don't maintain depth as the speed is increased, and there's pretty much no matching possible, so the filters won't be synchronized that well - that's usually considered a bad thing in phaser design but might contribute to what you like about the sound.

The optical phasers of which I know would be the Lovetone Doppelganger and the 4ms Phaseur Fleur. I recommend the 4ms because it's still made, affordable, sounds great, and can do more. I know 4MS offer a secondary LFO, and perhaps as a custom deal they will use their Panneur LFO which would allow for synchronized Bi-phasing if that was an important feature to you. Dann at 4MS is a great, friendly, knowledgeable guy.

[ErikW]

Originally Posted by Taylor Livingston

(Haven't played one, just looking at the schematic)

In principle, there's nothing too tricky about it, but you're probably unlikely to see a pedal clone since it's a somewhat large circuit.

The phasers are each 6-stage opamp allpass filters, and the varying resistance elements are light dependent resistors. One one hand, this will be less distortion-prone than Phase 90-type circuits (JFETs), but on the other hand, optocouplers don't maintain depth as the speed is increased, and there's pretty much no matching possible, so the filters won't be synchronized that well - that's usually considered a bad thing in phaser design but might contribute to what you like about the sound.

The optical phasers of which I know would be the Lovetone Doppelganger and the 4ms Phaseur Fleur. I recommend the 4ms because it's still made, affordable, sounds great, and can do more. I know 4MS offer a secondary LFO, and perhaps as a custom deal they will use their Panneur LFO which would allow for synchronized Bi-phasing if that was an important feature to you. Dann at 4MS is a great, friendly, knowledgeable guy.

[quadrogong]

http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/?p...equencycentral

This 14 stage, FET based phaser
by Rick Holt looks so wicked,
Ive had my eye on it for a few months,
I already ordered one if his tube OD's

I might try this as well..the audio clip starts off a bit tame, & gets a little more interesting as it goes on.. Doesn't remind me of the Mutron, but I like it.. soo swooshy!

http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/wp...Ray-Demo-2.mp3
THE CLIP

[Taylor Livingston]

Rick's a great guy and knows his stuff. Can't go wrong with one of his phasers.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by Taylor Livingston

(Haven't played one, just looking at the schematic)

In principle, there's nothing too tricky about it, but you're probably unlikely to see a pedal clone since it's a somewhat large circuit.

The phasers are each 6-stage opamp allpass filters, and the varying resistance elements are light dependent resistors. One one hand, this will be less distortion-prone than Phase 90-type circuits (JFETs), but on the other hand, optocouplers don't maintain depth as the speed is increased, and there's pretty much no matching possible, so the filters won't be synchronized that well - that's usually considered a bad thing in phaser design but might contribute to what you like about the sound.

The optical phasers of which I know would be the Lovetone Doppelganger and the 4ms Phaseur Fleur. I recommend the 4ms because it's still made, affordable, sounds great, and can do more. I know 4MS offer a secondary LFO, and perhaps as a custom deal they will use their Panneur LFO which would allow for synchronized Bi-phasing if that was an important feature to you. Dann at 4MS is a great, friendly, knowledgeable guy.

Taylor, how many different phaser architectures are out there? I know there are JFET, Opamp, OTA and VCA based phasers. Any others? And while Opamp and OTAs seem very similar (at least from my scant electronics knowledge) in my experience OTA and VCA based phasers have sounded more similar while JFET and Opamp phasers each have their own vibe. Why might that be the case?

Back on topic, from what I understand the BiPhase was essentially two of the Musitronics Phasor II's in one box with the ability to sync their LFOs. Phasor II's less expensive and are much easier to find in good condition.

But if you really want the dual LFOs I'd agree with Taylor. The Lovetone Doppleganger would get you there but is nearly as rare and expensive as the Mutron. Talk to 4ms about a custom Phaseur Fleur. It's about as close as you'll find currently available.

[Taylor Livingston]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Taylor, how many different phaser architectures are out there? I know there are JFET, Opamp, OTA and VCA based phasers. Any others? And while Opamp and OTAs seem very similar (at least from my scant electronics knowledge) in my experience OTA and VCA based phasers have sounded more similar while JFET and Opamp phasers each have their own vibe. Why might that be the case?

Well, first, JFET-based phasers are usually using opamps - the opamp along with some passive components create the bandpass filter itself, while the JFET acts like a resistor, whose resistance changes with the voltage of the LFO. In optical phasers, an opamp is still used to make the filter, but the varying resistor is an LDR.

In other words, opamps form the filter in both JFET and optical phasers. All that changes is how we make the varying resistor.

OTAs are another thing, and to be honest I don't know what those who say they have a VCA phaser mean by that. A voltage controlled amplifier is more of a concept than a component or specific circuit. One could make an optical, JFET or OTA-based VCA, or use one of the purpose-built VCA chips out there.

That does not imply any misleading or inaccurate claims - it's perfectly legitimate, I just would have to reserve comments about it without knowing more. I'd love to hear what they've done, though.

The differences in sound between the types will have to do with a variety of factors. As above and as you know, JFETs distort more readily than other types. Optocouplers are comparatively "loose" in the way they respond to the LFO. Add to that the fact that most phasers of a type are all based on some prototypical elder design, so most JFET phasers are based on the Phase 90, OTA phasers are usually based on the Small Stone, etc. so boutique clones of these will tend to sound more like their respective dads and brothers, than like descendants of other phaser types.

[faceinbass]

if this doesn't do it..


you may not need it done.

[Explorer]

The modulator I turn to for dual phasers is my TC Electronic Nova Modulator.

I understand if it doesn't do certain things spot on, but it's so versatile that I can't complain. It originally replaced my Electric Mistress with its dual effect engines LFO-locked, but my use of it has grown over time.

It's the piece which keeps me free of modulation GAS.

Look up the demo videos on YouTube, with it covering all the various effect tones, and you might decide to give it a try.

[Shish]

last week I got DNA Analogic Blue Lagoon, japanese Bi-Phase clone. it's a lot of fun. the only thing that bothers me that it significantly drops volume, especially with both phasers turned on.

[quadrogong]

...Yes, but they're impossible to find! They made like 50 of em?
The DNA seems almost rarer than the Mutron !

Just an update,
Rick Holt, the mad scientist behind Frequency Central, has come up w an improved Biphase,
..something I've been after for years.


He sent me this about the new Gemini Biphase:

"It's gonna be 145x120mm (5.7" x 4.7"). But it will be a-w-e-so-m-e.
I went to sleep last night figuring it all out. I've worked out how to make the two phase cores either series or parallel too, whcih the Bi-Phase doesn't have.
I'm definatly building this to add to my 'stock products' as I think a Bi-Phase work-a-like will be really popular. So thanks for the inspiration! It's gonna be called 'Gemini Dual Core Phase Shifter".

Both phases have o stomp on/off, and a switch to slave the no.2 to no.1, as well as the series/parallel switch.
I could run one to warble like " no quarter" while the other does a slow sweep,

Phasers are his passion, his 14 stage phase shifter is nuts,http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/?p=227
I can't even imagine how cool this will be.

Rick

[markjazzbassist]

Originally Posted by Shish

last week I got DNA Analogic Blue Lagoon, japanese Bi-Phase clone. it's a lot of fun. the only thing that bothers me that it significantly drops volume, especially with both phasers turned on.

yeah i had one too. tone suck and low end loss was HUGE. i returned it (after some gripping from the dude, who told me to get a clean blend) and bought a mutron phasor ii. the phasor ii, was alright, but i couldn't ever find "my" setting. i like mellow small stone type phasing, and this could throb or be mellow or be in between, but it was a little to clean and not colored enough for me.

i really want to try the bi-phase though.

other options include the moog phaser, which when paired with their ring mod, you can do bi-phasing and 12 stage phasing. just a thought.

[quadrogong]

I didn't know about the Moog thing, thnx

[TheMutt]

Also, it's probably modulation overkill, but the Eventide ModFactor has a biphase setting on it IIRC. (been a while since I owned one)

The M5/9/13 also has a biphase setting.

I think that EHX at one point was making the Bi-filters which could do biphase sounds.

[markjazzbassist]

Originally Posted by quadrogong

I didn't know about the Moog thing, thnx

yeah you just need the phaser, and then another LFO (which the ring mod has). the moog site and manuals have more info.

i think they even have clips on there site of it.

[quadrogong]

Originally Posted by TheMutt

Also, it's probably modulation overkill, but the Eventide ModFactor has a biphase setting on it IIRC. (been a while since I owned one)

The M5/9/13 also has a biphase setting.

I think that EHX at one point was making the Bi-filters which could do biphase sounds.

I didn't know about the Line 6 sound,
But I knew about the Eventide,
it's amazing sounding but a bit overwhelming for me,

I'm lousy w menus & complex digital user interfaces.. I'm way too burnt and stupid,

I'd probably have to carry a manual around w me,
I liked the Eventide but decided to veto it.

[quadrogong]

Rick is preparing phaser clips for me
I use my phase for a warbling, " no quarter" sound and he's gonna send clips that suggest this type of sound
I'll load e'm up ASAP

[frequency Rick]

Did someone say 'No Quarter'?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/967492/No%20Quarter.mp3

Audio path:

Rick's fingers >>> Rhodes Stage 73 MkI >>> Causality 6 Phaser >>> Roland Bolt 60 watt tube combo >>> Shure SM58 >>> Wavelab

regards,

Rick

[quadrogong]

two of these running at once?? Insane.

I'd set the other side to a slow sweep, under the No-Quarter sound,
or both sides warbling?
Fuggetabout it!!
On vocals??? It would sound sick

[frequency Rick]