My switch from pedals to a laptop - Page 4

JES · #61 09-09-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

I've only messed about with it briefly but to me Max/MSP looked like potentially a massive time sink that I would lose all my spare time tweaking. Have you found that to be the case, or can you produce a bunch of useful sounds fairly quickly?

I am not a programmer. Things like pedals and MIDI-mapping and setting up templates are enough for me. That's why I prefer Reaktor. It's older, there are more ready-made ensembles that do interesting sound-mangling stuff and are rock solid, if not terribly CPU-efficient. The free library is amazing. There are also readymade solutions like Audiomulch.

There are some great Max4Live patches (I like Density) but it's a much newer and less stable platform at the moment, at least in my own experience. The thing I use the most is just the LFO, which can be routed to any other effect.

OTOH, if you want customization, the sky is the limit with Max/MSP, and that's why most people who use it love it.

Knettgummi · #62 09-09-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

I've only messed about with it briefly but to me Max/MSP looked like potentially a massive time sink that I would lose all my spare time tweaking. Have you found that to be the case, or can you produce a bunch of useful sounds fairly quickly?

There's definitely a learning curve, but it comes with some good tutorials and a very helpful, knowledgable online community.

If you have a head for logical thinking and you know a thing or two about digital signal processing (kinda important, but also something you could pick up through Max) then there's virtually no limit to what kind of sounds and effects you can put together.

I find it is much like playing an instrument, in fact, a little frustrating when you're just starting out, but very fun and rewarding when you get the hang of it.

kevteop · #63 09-09-2012, 04:30 PM

That's the thing. I am a software developer professionally, and in a way it appeals to me on that level but the GUI puts me off. GUI interfaces to stuff like this always seem a bit contrived and feel like they get in the way. Is there an alternative UI - say, a scripting language?

I suppose I would rather be writing code than dragging stuff around. Although I suppose the visual feedback is useful in some ways and you'd need to input position information if it can't just make a decent guess at sensible places to put scripted elements in the patcher. I imagine that would be a hard job for a program, it's hard for a human!

MSUsousaphone · #64 09-09-2012, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JehuJava

I tried to go this route in the past and it was TOO complicated for me. I went back to pedals.

I felt like this at several points. I would have axed the whole project had it not been for a friend who was able to show me what he was doing and troubleshoot with me.

Knettgummi · #65 09-10-2012, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

That's the thing. I am a software developer professionally, and in a way it appeals to me on that level but the GUI puts me off. GUI interfaces to stuff like this always seem a bit contrived and feel like they get in the way. Is there an alternative UI - say, a scripting language?

I suppose I would rather be writing code than dragging stuff around. Although I suppose the visual feedback is useful in some ways and you'd need to input position information if it can't just make a decent guess at sensible places to put scripted elements in the patcher. I imagine that would be a hard job for a program, it's hard for a human!

There is a scripting language, but it seems a little clunky for writing patches from the ground up -- as far as I can see you'd have to account for the placement of all the components, like you suggested.

I personally think there are many advantages to the GUI approach, though. For instance, it makes it easier to follow the signal path, not to mention experimenting with different combinations (almost like patching on a modular synth). It's also very easy to create and reuse abstractions and packages of code. And creating nice looking, user friendly interfaces is a breeze.

If you know other scripting languages, like Java or Python, then you'll be able to integrate those in your Max/MSP patches with relative ease. As of v6 there's also a new program extension called Gen, which allows for more detailed control over signal processes (it's pretty much the best thing ever - I built a waveguide synth emulating a plucked string within like 5 minutes of installing it :P).

If the GUI really puts you off, however, you might want to check out CSound (if you're not already familiar). It's a very versatile DSP programming language, and it's even free! Normally I'd say that it's a little harder to get into than Max, but to a software developer it should be fairly intuitive.

kevteop · #66 09-10-2012, 03:11 AM

Haha wow! Now all I need is a large amount of spare time. :/

I was talking about Max/MSP to a colleague at work today and apparently a mutual friend of ours has been using it for a couple of years. Colleague started his conversation with 'When I last went to visit <x> in Fieldhead' - Fieldhead is the local mental hospital. And apparently he'd referred himself!

Starting to worry about the mindset of your average Max/MSP user...

Knettgummi · #67 09-10-2012, 03:55 AM

Hah!

As someone who is about two months away from a masters degree in music technology, I'm not surprised -- we've all lost it.

BogeyBass · #68 09-10-2012, 04:50 AM

just thought i would add instead of using a DAW to stack multiple effects or just using a stand alone program and being limited to what it includes.

You can use a VST stacker which allows you to run the effects but removes the need to run the DAW and all the computing power they take up.
I sure there is plenty of free stackers out there to try but also Steinberg the inventor of the the VST does have a stacker....and what do yah know its called Vst Stacker.
Also NI did a similar thing with Kore, i bought the very early version of it to use it for music production not effects.
Was not happy with it production wise. But for a live situation it would most likely work out well , actually really well because kore has grown to a monster since the last time I have seen it.

Also programs like Native Instruments guitar Rig and IK multimedias amplitube, are both great for standard type effects. Just buying a single program would give you thousands of dollars worth of effects. But the main benefit to me to use a computer would be for more extreme effects for modulation and synth type filtering processing.

Using programs like NI Reaktor and VST plugins like waves and others is the real benefit. I could build a whole live setup in Reaktor alone and not even worry about running a stacker.

Guitar Rig sound quality is not that great, I would go for IK multimedias products like amplitube and others they have. the sound quality is better. Downfall is one program has a cool amp sim and then another has a cool effect and you cant use them together, I forget the name but they do have a program which allows you to run all of the sims in one program.

kevteop · #69 09-10-2012, 04:55 AM

Incidentally is there a foot controller like the FCB1010 but with less footswitches?

I'd like something smaller but retaining the two expression pedals if possible.

I guess like an FC300 but... cheaper!

BogeyBass · #70 09-10-2012, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevteop

Incidentally is there a foot controller like the FCB1010 but with less footswitches?

A foot controller is just using an analog foot pedal and converting it to Midi continuous controller information.
So you can just use a interface and add as many as you want.
many out there like this

Calaverasgrande · #71 09-11-2012, 12:01 AM

Revalver is pretty decent. When I had access to the beta, before it became a Peavey product, I was impressed by some of the tones.
I suppose it's good they went with Peavey. Roland would have just killed it if it had become a Twelve Tone product.

MSUsousaphone · #72 11-09-2012, 11:44 AM

So. My update.

I'm putting all the gear up for sale.

I'm sure Ableton and Max have everything in it that I'm looking for.....but the interface for the software is beyond me. I'm a button masher. I'm not a software engineer. And that's what the interface seems to be set up for. Guitar Rig 5 had an awesome interface. It was designed to look like a rack so that musicians knew how to play with it. If GR had the depth and possibilities of Ableton or if Ableton had it's effects setup like GR, this would easily be the way to go. I just don't have the time to sit around and fumble through it.

I salute all those who make it further than me on this venture.

Godspeed.

And BUY MY **** SO THAT I CAN GET SOME PEDALS BACK!!!!

caeman · #73 11-09-2012, 12:00 PM

Slacker! Wimp! Chicken!

tink9975 · #74 11-09-2012, 12:52 PM

you need your B-Peg back?

MSUsousaphone · #75 11-09-2012, 06:53 PM

Hahaha. Yeah. I think less ADHD people would accomplish....and people with more usual tastes in effects.....it's just not for me. Or adult me. If I had more time and someone tutoring me on it, I'm sure it would be easy, too.

So I'll wait until someone forges ahead and leaves me patches to plug in. :P

Oh, and Tink, I'm just chilling with my babies at the moment, so I'm not rushed, but I can get you MikeO's addy if you're ready to send her on.

**mjac28** · #76 11-09-2012, 07:09 PM

Nice rig I know it sounds great you can get any sound you want and one vst you have to try is Native Instruments "The Mouth" you will get bass sounds that will blow you away

Calaverasgrande · #77 11-10-2012, 02:53 PM

I think I may investigate a setup like this after I get my new lighter rig sorted.
I am thinking of going with an Ipad and one of the guitar/bass interfaces. I am also going to hold off until lightning based devices are more prevalent. I like the idea of the Alesis and digitech boxes that the ipad slides into.
Will they make a mini version?

HolmeBass · #78 11-10-2012, 03:37 PM

Oh I am sorry to hear that MSU, I figured you'd wire this stuff no problem. But I also understand. I work with computers all day, I sure as sh!t don't want to take one to a gig! The pedals have a certain purity to them that is undeniable.

Good luck unloading that stuff. I'd try an electronic musician forum, I bet you can sell your software and controllers in no time.

MSUsousaphone · #79 11-10-2012, 03:45 PM

Yeah. I might be lucky in that the laptop is still really new so not yet at that obsolete point where it's only worth a couple a hundred bucks. Haha.

JES · #80 03-24-2013, 08:19 AM

Reviving this thread.

I want to talk about hardware instead of software for a moment. Ok, you're playing live at a coffeeshop or small venue. You've got your bass, pedalboard, laptop. Do you bring a bass amp? If you're using stereo effects how do you monitor them? Where do you put the laptop and how do you protect it?

I have been working up my repertoire but haven't yet tried it in performance. The point of the laptop setup would be a minimalist rig: bass, amp, tuner, laptop, foot controller. I could see an iPad on a mic stand for more manipulation of sounds.

Thanks for your thoughts. If there are good articles about this sort of thing somewhere, I'd love suggestions.