need help with the clairity of my rig in the mix

vladchrome · #1 05-14-2010, 03:09 AM

Ok here is my rig I have a Carvin B5 with Bassline humbucker at bridge stock jazz style pick up near neck ( really in the middle position ) 3 band eq (on the guitar ) into Boss ME-50B 4 band eq into Hartke 350 head 10 or so graphic eq into shs 4x10 200watt cab and GK 1x15 200 watt bottom. Now this sounds great by itself but once the band kicks in it sounds really muddy and it's hard to distinguish the notes. Today I took the Boss multi-effects unit out of the mix and just went through the amp, it sounded a little bit better but still burried in the mix. The only thing I can think of is there's too many eqs that the original signal is going through. So I was wondering if anyone has had similar problems with this kind of set up and hopefully how to overcome this.
p.s. the effects unit is going through the send and return.
Also would like to add that the eq is in the frown pattern pedal eq slight boost in the mids, bass guitar settings are just above flat mids a bit higher

Shmone · #2 05-14-2010, 03:25 AM

What are your EQs set on?

ourworldisgrey · #3 05-14-2010, 03:41 AM

"Sounds great by itself, but gets buried in a mix" often seems pretty indicative of overly scooped mids. Boost them up and see what happens.

G0rilla · #4 05-14-2010, 05:00 AM

+1 for mids, but in my opinion, main reason for not being heard is Hartke head and Boss ME50B. I dont know why, but all my experience with hartke heads was same as your problem - sounds ok alone, but gets buried in mix. And ME50B alone is not best choice for fx, and it is not supposed to be in fx loop (unless you have pre/post switch and fx loop can run on instrument level).

cheapbasslovin · #5 05-14-2010, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G0rilla

+1 for mids, but in my opinion, main reason for not being heard is Hartke head and Boss ME50B. I dont know why, but all my experience with hartke heads was same as your problem - sounds ok alone, but gets buried in mix. And ME50B alone is not best choice for fx, and it is not supposed to be in fx loop (unless you have pre/post switch and fx loop can run on instrument level).

I can't speak to the Hartke, but I used a ME50B in a pretty loud rock band (I refuse to play that loud now) for 3 years and could still hear myself most of the time. I do agree that mids are likely the answer.

I'd start by setting the amp flat and then boosting the mids on your bass or on the graphic EQ. 500 to 1500 HZ range depending on your bass and the band mix. Those contour controls are good for dialing in more thump or more high harmonics, but they are begging to remove you from the mix if they're dialed in too strong.

Another option is just don't play as loud.

You may have a hard time convincing a band this is a good idea; but trust me, it is.

vladchrome · #6 05-14-2010, 09:53 AM

The mids are boosted (frown pattern) I think the prob may be the Boss. I think if I could some way bypass the eq on the pedal that would probably help maybe separate pedals may be the way to go.
As for the Hartke I still wanna give it another chance.

Thanks for the answers is helpful and has given me some ideas to try at practice.

stflbn · #7 05-14-2010, 09:58 AM

Personally, I'd try stripping everything out except Bass into Amp and see if you then cut through with everything set flat. If not... start adding mids.

Then once you're getting the cut through you want, start adding other parts with attention to keeping that same amount of cutting through.

.

megadan · #8 05-14-2010, 01:56 PM

Bass into amp, boost the mids, fresh roundwound strings.

If that doesn't get you clarity, then it's a problem with the quality of the amp, cab, or bass (or technique, but that's a pretty subjective thing - none the less, try some different techniques, like using a pick, just to be sure).

vladchrome · #9 05-14-2010, 03:48 PM

Hey I really appreciate the advice I think my plan of attack is bass to amp, establish a good tone there then work the pedal in. Technique is another interesting point maybe a slightly more aggressive attack without really digging in.

Nic. · #10 05-15-2010, 01:16 AM

+1 on the mids.

My tone is largely coming from boosting mids and cutting highs on my on-board EQ, and my overdrive is set to boosting mids and cutting highs, and my preamp just before sending to amp boosts low mids. I usually set the amp flat.

I seem to be having the opposite problem, the guitard is struggling to be heard. I frequently have to turn down my volume.

wetzelman1 · #11 05-15-2010, 06:47 PM

aphex bass xciter will help this, I use it, but wish I didn't, if that makes sense.

bigblondeafro87 · #12 05-15-2010, 08:22 PM

IMO Hartke's don't sit too well in certain mixes... But experiment with eq, try adding low mids and some high mids different mixes call for different settings.

vladchrome · #13 05-15-2010, 09:22 PM

well monday is our next rehearsal I am thinking about going over the patches on the multi-fx and making sure the eqs are flat and make sure the fx are not too rich. I'm still gonna try bass to amp first then work in the pedal.

afro87 the eq setting you're suggesting would that have an M shape.

bigblondeafro87 · #14 05-16-2010, 01:39 AM

Kinda sorta but more parabolic in shape (curvy). Its best to cut rather than to boost, it sounds better usually. So I have a peak at 160 hz, leaving it flat and gradually cutting lower freqs. At 1k-1.6k I have the second peak which is boosted~ 3 dB. In between the two I cut slightly and I gradually cut the highs.

But it really depends on your amp, speaker, and the room, not to mention your bass.

JimmyM · #15 05-16-2010, 05:11 AM

i believe hartkes have the fender tone stack, where you can only cut mids and only boost bass and treble so it always sounds scooped. odd tone stack...near flat settings are treble and bass on 2 and mids on 10. or thereabouts.

vladchrome · #16 05-16-2010, 01:39 PM

went over the patches last night think I got something I can work with (pedal eq is at 12 o clock I am thinking that is the flat setting with the mids between 12 and 1 ), afro87 I think I know what you're suggesting and I have heard that cutting sounds better than boosting Jimmy I will let you know if I can boost the mids we get together tomorrow so I' ll post the results.
Again thank for the insight and help.

1954bassman · #17 05-16-2010, 01:51 PM

If you plug your bass directly into your anp, with all EQ set flat, and no effects, and (1) it does not sound great - and / or - (2) sounds muddy (aka terrible) when playing with your band, I would look at another bass rig. A 350 watt head with a 410 and a 115 cab should sound great. If you are playing really loud, a 350 watt head won't cut it, no matter what the EQ settings are.

This is no fault of yours, nor is it intended to be a slam on your rig. A loud bass rig will gooble up 350 watts in a heartbeat.

God Bless the soundman

Mark

LowB-ing · #18 05-16-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i believe hartkes have the fender tone stack, where you can only cut mids and only boost bass and treble so it always sounds scooped. odd tone stack...near flat settings are treble and bass on 2 and mids on 10. or thereabouts.

I believe you are talking about the LH series amps, right?

The OP said he had a 350 with 10 band graphic EQ, so no tone stack. They do have low/high knobs in addition to the graphic, but they are actually pretty flat at detent, as far as I can remember.

vladchrome · #19 05-16-2010, 02:28 PM

yeah that is right LowB Hartke 350 Trans-attack(I think that's the name) with tube preamp, one knob for tube one for solid state, low/high knobs

JimmyM · #20 05-17-2010, 10:04 AM

sorry...i thought all hartkes had the fender tone stack. never mind