need more dirt on my octave

[dan.ablett]

playing a MM4 thru a pog into a markbass. i can/t seem to pull a usable dry/sub octave sound from this set up (crazy i know!) i think it is because the sound im pulling is just too clean. i remember when i was checking out octave pedals in the store i really liked the ashdown pedal with the built in distortion. in the end it didnt track well enough for me. just wondering what would be a good distortion to just dirty up my pog sound, but not get too "in anyone's face"

any suggestions?

[OhThePeacock]

I seem to really like my Tonebender with an octave but then again that's really in your face and synth like.

[speak_onion]

Originally Posted by dan.ablett

playing a MM4 thru a pog into a markbass. i can/t seem to pull a usable dry/sub octave sound from this set up (crazy i know!) i think it is because the sound im pulling is just too clean. i remember when i was checking out octave pedals in the store i really liked the ashdown pedal with the built in distortion. in the end it didnt track well enough for me. just wondering what would be a good distortion to just dirty up my pog sound, but not get too "in anyone's face"

any suggestions?

I'm in largely the same boat as you. The tone of the Ashdown really does it for me, but the tracking is unforgiveable. The EBS Octabass was the compromise I made. It tracks much better and is closer in sound since it uses analog octave divison instead of digital pitch shifting (I have my PS3 for that).

The only other thing I could suggest is to get a blender, and put the POG and a distortion or OD in the loop and turn down the clean signal on the POG. That won't really sound like the Ashdown, though, but it might get close.

The reason that it won't be the same is that the analog octave divison process involves changing your signal to a square wave and then filtering that back into a more natural waveform. The Ashdown Octave lets you blend your clean signal, the filtered signal (the regular sub octave) and the unfiltered signal (the distorted suboctave). At least that's what it sounds like to me. Anyway, the POG is using a completely different process, so distorting the POG's sub octave won't really sound the same. It may sound good to you though, so it's worth a shot. Much more pedals than just one, though. . .

[dan.ablett]

that sort of makes sense to me but honestly that mostly went over my head.... could you maybe rephrase? thanks....

[nickbear]

i use an english muffn to add some dirt to my pog and i get good results

[speak_onion]

Originally Posted by dan.ablett

that sort of makes sense to me but honestly that mostly went over my head.... could you maybe rephrase? thanks....

Sorry. I think this has probably been described elsewhere before, but I'll give it another shot.

Basically, most sub-octave devises impliment the effect by a process known as octave division. As I understand it, that means that what it does is retains only the zero-crossings of your signal (basically fuzzing it into a square wave) and gets rid of every other zero crossing, and then you have a square wave at half the frequency, aka one octave lower. When you start to filter out the higher harmonics of that square wave, you get it back down to a waveform that is more like a guitar/bass, i.e, sine wave plus harmonics. As you might imagine, after all this, the sub-octave has little or nothing to do with the actual sound of your original note except for the pitch/frequency. That's why analog octave dividers sound so dirty, and why they glitch on chords (beating frequencies will screw up something that is looking for zero-crossings).

As often happens in music gear, the quirks of old technology become coveted sounds even though technology has advanced to the point where they can surpass them. The dirty analog octave tone (Boss OC-2, EHX Octave mulitplexer, Ashdown Sub-Octave) is a great sound, but usually, the dirtier it is, the worse the tracking is. Enter, EHX POG. This does not use octave division in the way I described above. It is a digital pitch shifter. That leads to awesome tracking, and polyphonic operation, but you lose your filthy sub-octave sound. It's a tradeoff.

For me, I kept my Ashdown Sub-Octave for when I just have to have that filthy tone and I can afford to suffer a bit on the tracking, but I opted for an EBS Octabass live. It's an analog octave divider, but it's tracking is top of the heap. It's not as dirty as the Ashdown, but not as crystal clear as the POG. That's why I found it to be a nice compromise.

That either cleared it up or made it soo much worse.

[kaputsport]

I had an ashdown sub octave a few weeks back, and got rid of it for a Boss OC-2. The pedal has a little grit, and sounds great.

I have an old school Boss HM-2 distortion pedal (rare and discontinued) after the octave in the chain, and it is thick, and rich sub octave goodness...

You can also run the distortion in your effects loop (if MarkBass uses them) and the octave before the preamp...

Otherwise, you are left to stomp boxes. Try changing the order around.

[markjazzbassist]

for mild dirt I'd suggest an Overdrive pedal. DOD 250, Barber LTD, and HAO Rust Ride are a few.

[Paulitics]

Originally Posted by dan.ablett

that sort of makes sense to me but honestly that mostly went over my head.... could you maybe rephrase? thanks....

Speak Onion did a excellent job of explaining why analog octave dividers sound dirty and distorted in his post but I'm guessing you also wanted a clearer explanation of his suggestion about how to get this kind of sound with a pog.

Since I am also thinking about doing this I will try to explain it and maybe others who have tried this can chime in and let us know what they think. The suggestion is to put the pog in a loop with a distortion/fuzz/overdrive pedal using a blender/looper such as Barge Concepts VFB-2. These pedals allow you to blend your dry signal with the wet signal from the loop. Thus if your pog is in the loop (set such that it only ouputs the sub octave) followed by a distortion pedal, that dirty suboctave signal can be blended with the clean signal from you bass. I plan to do this but instead I will use only the upper octave into the distortion pedal to give the effect of a second guitarist for the fuller parts of my 3 piece bands songs.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried this. Does it work well for either of the applications described above? I will be purchasing a micro pog mostly for its clean sounds but would like to be able to use it for these other purposes also.

[Paulitics]

Has anyone tried this? Is there a setting on the VFB-2 such that when you engage it the bypass or clean base signal does not decrease in volume and the wet signal is just added to it? I would like to try this but if my clean bass signal decreases in volume when i engage the blender than that wouldn't work for me.

[Jazz Ad]

Too clean ?
Sell POG, buy Octave Multiplexer.
Problem solved, money saved in the process.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Too clean ?
Sell POG, buy Octave Multiplexer.
Problem solved, money saved in the process.

Not a bad idea. You'd obviously lose some flexibility the tracking isn't as good, but should certainly do what the OP wants.

[diechris]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

I had an ashdown sub octave a few weeks back, and got rid of it for a Boss OC-2. The pedal has a little grit, and sounds great.

I have an old school Boss HM-2 distortion pedal (rare and discontinued) after the octave in the chain, and it is thick, and rich sub octave goodness...

You can also run the distortion in your effects loop (if MarkBass uses them) and the octave before the preamp...

Otherwise, you are left to stomp boxes. Try changing the order around.

i remember a while back the HM-2 to be a pretty neat pedal(yes discontinued... but not very rare and also found on ebay for cheap all the time..) but i think i'd go for what markjazzbassist said about getting an OD pedal. this could just be because im obsessed with OD pedals...

[ehque]

Originally Posted by nickbear

i use an english muffn to add some dirt to my pog and i get good results

I've got a micro pog coming in and ill also be feeding the wet output into an english muffin.