Need some help on Sansamp pedals

[Qvist]

Hey, I'm in a band which consists of a drummer, a guitarist and me the bassist. Since we lack a rhythm guitarist we think the songs sounds a little empty during solos, and that's where I thought I might be able to distort the bass so it would still do the bass job, supporting the low end, while it has that raw distorted rock sound to it at the same time. So naive as I was I went to the musicstore and bought myself a boss guitar pedal, and boy how stupid I was... The first time I plugged it in at home I thought it sounded pretty raw, too raw, but what I didn't notice until we went to rehearsel was that it basically removed all the low end and ended up totally getting lost in the mix.

So later on I heard about sansamp's pedals, and was wondering - can they sound like what I want them to?

And also, are they only good for tube amps?

And finally, is the SansAmp Tech21 GT2 Amp Modeler also good for bass (does it keep the low end when you use it)?

If anyone owns a sansamp and has some demos or examples with them in use, please post away

[JFace]

The GT2 is pretty sick for bass, but you lose a lot of the bottom end. The sansamp bass DI is good for adding some crunch. The idea behind sansamp is to immitate tube amps, so typically you would use it with a solid state head, but it would work fine with tubes too. I might also suggest that you look into an octave pedal. Play up high on the fretboard to fill the mids, and let the octaver match the lows. Some of them even have built in fuzz units to make it extra sweet.

[Qvist]

So if I play the octave pedal along with the sansamp pedal it would give me more low-end, and still maintain the distorted sound?

[SteveMcB]

There are quite a few options for filling in the space often occupied by a rhythm guitarist...

1) Multicourse bass (ie. octave paired 8 or 12 (4 courses) or 10 (5 courses) string). My personal favourite option, and to add distortion I've used the Sansamp BDDI (bass driver DI) which is good, or used a peavey BAC-2 biamp bass chorus, which has separate high and low frequency outs, running the lows to a bass amp and the highs through a guitar amp (and guitar distortion pedal (Boss OD3)) which is incredible

2) Octave down pedal, and play an octave up (ie. 12th fret and above) You get full lows, and the higher notes fill out the rhythm territory. Distortion with a BDDI (or other bass distortions) is optional. Issues are that generally octave-down pedals (at least the analog variety) track somewhat variably, produce synthetic-sounding octave-down notes, won't track lower down the neck and get very confused and glitchy if you play chords (or double stops even). Still a very useful option which I used in the past (with an old Boss OC2 but even a Danelectro Chilli dog would do the job most likely)

3) Octave up pedal (POG/MicroPOG/HOG/Whammy/Unibass) +/- distortion +/- octave up signal running through a guitar setup - this lets you play as normal in terms of fretting position, and adds an octave above. These also can work on chords/double stops, but tend to sound "digital"/"synthy", and be expensive.

4) "Uniboss" method - play your bass through a pedal with stereo outputs (eg. boss bass chorus which IIRC is what gave the method its name)(effect does not need to be on), run one output through your bass amp and the other through a guitar distortion pedal/amp combination - lacks the octave, but using a guitar rig emphasises the mids/makes yr bass sound a bit like a guitar and works for filling out the space

5) Blender - Allows you to preserve the low end by putting a distortion (or other for that matter) pedal in a loop and blend some of its sound with your fundamental clean sound - so you keep your low end and get your distortion as well from pretty much any pedal whether it keeps lows or not.

6) Using a pedal that is optimised for distortion on bass (Sansamp BDDI, MXR Blowtorch, Fulltone Bass drive, Ibanez Phat Hed, do a search and you'll find hundreds of others) or that happens to sound good on bass and not lose too much in the way of lows (Digitech Bad Monkey and EH Little Big Muff are often discussed in this context). IMHO this method doesn't really fill the guitar space that much, it just makes your bass sound different (and cool) but it is used by some people to fill things out

7) Biamp rig as described in 1) with distortion on the highs.

Good luck,
Steve

[pickles]

Lots of BDDI and GT2 clips here:

Fun with Dirt

The name of each file says what pedal it is.

[Qvist]

Thanks for the great tips Steve!

Holy **** pickles (funny sentence!), that Gt2 sounds freakin awesome! and the BDDI aswell.. how do they sound combined?

[tom once dead]

Originally Posted by Qvist

So if I play the octave pedal along with the sansamp pedal it would give me more low-end, and still maintain the distorted sound?

Dont need to, the ashdown octaver has built in distortion

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by SteveMcB

3) Octave up pedal (POG/MicroPOG/HOG/Whammy/Unibass) +/- distortion +/- octave up signal running through a guitar setup - this lets you play as normal in terms of fretting position, and adds an octave above. These also can work on chords/double stops, but tend to sound "digital"/"synthy", and be expensive.

This is the best method if you ask me for simulating a rhythm guitar. Listen to this clip of me playing Velvet Revolver's "Slither." First you can hear me playing it clean, then with my bass going into an A/B/Y switch. Channel A right to my head, and channel B going to a POG, 1 and 2 octaves up both maxed out, then to a Turbo Rat, then to a Marshall JTM combo guitar amp. Works just as well with a blender pedal, or if your amp has two input. Tell me this doesn't sound like a rhythm guitarist playing along with me!!

[Nyarlathotep]

What kind of music do you guys play. If its something along the lines of metal then I'd suggest a Wounded Paw Attack Goat. Its a blendable fuzz. Search up on it, there is a thread with samples. On of the ones by "The BurgerMeister" (sp?) really sounds like a guitar and bass.

Your situation is exactly why im going to get one eventually.

[Swift713]

With all due respect, I just don't understand the perceived need to fill up space, not that there's anything wrong with it. I've been in a few trios, in fact I prefer trios, and I've never felt that things got too thin during solos. Listen to Bach's cello suites or some Indian classical and tell me that one voice isn't enough to hold your interest, never mind three. Sometimes a little space is more interesting than clutter.
Octave doubling can sound really cool but to me it still sounds like one voice, like power chords on a guitar.
Eh, don't mind me....

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by Swift713

With all due respect, I just don't understand the perceived need to fill up space, not that there's anything wrong with it. I've been in a few trios, in fact I prefer trios, and I've never felt that things got too thin during solos. Listen to Bach's cello suites or some Indian classical and tell me that one voice isn't enough to hold your interest, never mind three. Sometimes a little space is more interesting than clutter.
Octave doubling can sound really cool but to me it still sounds like one voice, like power chords on a guitar.
Eh, don't mind me....

Yep. You could also do miracles by in specific parts play more busy lines, similar to let's say what Jack Bruce does in "I'm So Glad" while Eric Clapton is doing his long solos. So no need for pedals and such, just your fingers and brain doing the work. --Kent

[Swift713]

Yeah, I have this weird habit of soloing at the same time as the guitar player, but if someone tells me to "take a solo" I clam up.
Go figure.

[Qvist]

Originally Posted by Swift713

With all due respect, I just don't understand the perceived need to fill up space, not that there's anything wrong with it. I've been in a few trios, in fact I prefer trios, and I've never felt that things got too thin during solos. Listen to Bach's cello suites or some Indian classical and tell me that one voice isn't enough to hold your interest, never mind three. Sometimes a little space is more interesting than clutter.
Octave doubling can sound really cool but to me it still sounds like one voice, like power chords on a guitar.
Eh, don't mind me....

No worries, I understand what you mean. We're just playing rock music and I'm interested in getting a heavier tone

[SteveMcB]

Space is great in the right context, but in a short form (like a rock song) where you go from guitar/bass/drums with vocals as a lead to just bass/drums with guitar as a lead, you often loose a bit in the transition - the sound itself is not bad, it's just a jolt in terms of changing from the previous setup. That's not always bad, and can be compensated for in a number of ways - bass player being more busy, effects, more cymbals from the drummer. But often it's nice to be able to fill in where the guitarist was. For me, often I'm covering rhythm guitar territory the whole time on my 12string bass because there is an amazing shortage of guitarists at my church. I find that 12string biamped is an amazing way to fill the space.

Steve

[BassMonstrum]

Wow, never knew the POG could do that! How's the MicroPOG and how are they compared to the EBS Octabass (which only tracks one octave down)?

[Swift713]

Qvist,
I hear you and I understand. I just see this topic often and wonder if some people are trying to use their effects as a crutch to make riding the roots sound like more.

[Qvist]

You are correct about your assumptions Swift713, too many bassists enjoy just playing roots and basically just follow the rhythm guitar dead on. I think that's freaking boring, and thats a part of my playing where I'm really influenced by Duff Mckagan of Guns'n'roses. He follows roots mostly, but every now and then he'll jump off quickly and do some wicked cool fill that really contributes to the song and his own flashing of his talent. If I could get that gritty rock sound that you often use rhythm guitars for (I know it'll not sound like a guitar completely, 'cause it's a bass, but a nice alternative atleast), and at the same time support the low end as my bass duty, I'd be in heaven!

I was wondering, can you really run a bass through a guitar amp without blowing up the speakers quickly? I could imagine the output of the bass would be a bit too strong for the freq'z the guitar is built for.

[pickles]

Originally Posted by Qvist

Thanks for the great tips Steve!

Holy **** pickles (funny sentence!), that Gt2 sounds freakin awesome! and the BDDI aswell.. how do they sound combined?

The GT2 doesn't really need the BDDI. They can sound good together at certain settings, but the double up on speaker emulation isn't really necessary, and there are lots of bad combined settings.

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by Qvist

You are correct about your assumptions Swift713, too many bassists enjoy just playing roots and basically just follow the rhythm guitar dead on. I think that's freaking boring, and thats a part of my playing where I'm really influenced by Duff Mckagan of Guns'n'roses. He follows roots mostly, but every now and then he'll jump off quickly and do some wicked cool fill that really contributes to the song and his own flashing of his talent. If I could get that gritty rock sound that you often use rhythm guitars for (I know it'll not sound like a guitar completely, 'cause it's a bass, but a nice alternative atleast), and at the same time support the low end as my bass duty, I'd be in heaven!

I was wondering, can you really run a bass through a guitar amp without blowing up the speakers quickly? I could imagine the output of the bass would be a bit too strong for the freq'z the guitar is built for.

The problem with most guitar amps is the open-ended back resulting in nasty problems when playing bass with low/high frequencies, resulting in destroying the cone(s).

If you really want a gritty sound, use a Sansamp or any distortion/overdrive pedal.

Still, there's more musicianship to use your talent to play interesting walking lines than just stomp on a pedal for filling up parts. Listen to any good trios concerning how bass players operate. Geddy Lee is also a good example to learn from. --Kent

[bigchiefbc]

Originally Posted by BassMonstrum

Wow, never knew the POG could do that! How's the MicroPOG and how are they compared to the EBS Octabass (which only tracks one octave down)?

I've only played the MicroPog in the store, so I didn't get to demo it with my full setup. But seeing as it only gives you a single octave up, it can give you the guitar sound, but only a guitar playing a single note. I like the full POG because it gives you both of those upper octave, which sounds like a guitarist playing a chord. What I REALLY want is a HOG, because it also has a slider at 1.5 octaves up, so that plus the 1 and 2 octaves up will sound like a guitar playing power chords along with me.

Never played the Octabass, but if it only gives you down octaves, its not going to help fill the space with a guitar sound at all.