needing overdrive + D.I.

alema · #1 12-19-2007, 08:13 PM

Hi Guys, I've been a member for some time, always read the forums, but never posted here before.

I have two problems and want to solve both at once.

My amp is a Mesa Big Block 750, but the D.I. has a malfunction and I could never use it, but I don't like passive D.I. boxes, because a like some OD or dirt in my sound.
And I like to use the big block distortion, but without a D.I. (or a microphone) it would be useless, because no one would hear the distorted sound.

I like to push the amp, sometimes with an overdrive in the clean channel, and sometimes in the distortion channel.
I'm using a bad monkey, it's nice... but it's not fantastic... it has alot of bass, but not too much useful bass, it usually gets muddy and boomy.

So, I was thinking about the fulltone bassdrive because the drive, but no D.I.
And the Sansamp RBI, because it can do OD, has a D.I., and it's rackmounted (I have 1 free rackspace) but I heard the overdrive, it's not that great.

If anyone used one of this in the Big Block or any tips, I would be very thankful.

And sorry about any language mistakes, I'm Brazilian.

bongomania · #2 12-19-2007, 08:18 PM

There is a pedal called the BJFE Blueberry which might have the Big Block sound you like. Then you could use a lighter "clean" amp and any sort of DI. If you just want to use the Big Block, there are a few DI's which can take a speaker-level output so you send the entire sound of the amp (including power tube distortion) to the PA. There include the Countryman Type 85, the Avalon U5, and the Radial JDI- although I'm not sure if they can all handle 750 watts.

Big Benner · #3 12-19-2007, 08:38 PM

What about one of the SansAmp Bass Drivers made by Tech 21?

http://www.tech21nyc.com/bassdriver_p.html

Benner

alema · #4 12-19-2007, 10:47 PM

Bongomania
How this type of D.I. work, in the loop of the amp or in between the amp and speakers?

Big Benner
I already considered the Sansamp RBI, but I need to hear some feedback about it distortion ability.

seanm · #5 12-19-2007, 11:30 PM

According to the docs, the Countryman can take 300V P-P which equals 2,800W into 4 ohms.

alema: The Countryman can be put in between the amp and the speaker.

alema · #6 12-20-2007, 12:24 AM

this can be a silly question, but wouldn't the D.I. between amp and speakers influence the cab ohm rate?

seanm · #7 12-20-2007, 12:40 AM

For all practical purposes no. The input of the DI is 10k which is very high compared to a speaker. 8 ohms in parallel with 10k is 8 ohms.

Racermech · #8 12-20-2007, 08:09 AM

I also have a BB750 and love the amp. The overdrive is a bit wooley for my tastes, and isn't as grindy as I had hoped, but oh well...it has its purposes.

As far as DI'ing goes...why not grab a Radial JDI (or other transparant DI) and run it out of the "Slave Output" in the back of the amp? This will give you the tone of the 750 and give you a bit of control over hotness of the signal going FOH

bongomania · #9 12-20-2007, 08:24 AM

Is that slave output post-power stage or just post-preamp?

alema · #10 12-20-2007, 09:47 AM

I don't exactly how the slave output works, but if it works in the post-preamp area wouldn't it be the same as putting the D.I. between the loop?

Actually I'm very lined towards the D.I. right now. just deciding between the Countryman 85 and the Radial JDI. What would be the best one to stay inside my rack just ready to plug in?

bongomania · #11 12-20-2007, 10:34 AM

They are equally high quality. The Countryman requires power and the JDI does not. I'm not sure what the power-handling of the Radial is, but here's the data sheet for you to do the math:
http://www.radialeng.com/JDImk3-eng.pdf

Racermech · #12 12-20-2007, 11:34 AM

Direct from the owner's manual of the BB750...

"The SLAVE feature provides a padded signal that is derived from the Speaker Output and captures the entire sound of the preamp and power section. This is useful for large venue applications, where multiple BIG BLOCK or other slave amplifiers are strung together for additional power to drive more speaker enclosures.

The SLAVE may also be used as a send signal to feed outboard processing racks in a dry/ wet setup where processing is done after the BIG BLOCK 750 and then fed to a Stereo power amplifier for separate control of the wet sound. This works very well and is similar to what is done in the recording environment where a dry signal is blended with another channel on the console that is only the processed (wet) version of the same sound.

NOTE: Once a signal has been taken from the SLAVE , you can not feed the signal back into the BIG BLOCK Effects RETURN
jack or INPUT. Doing so will cause a feedback loop resulting in a high pitched squeal, much like a microphone held up to a monitor. You must go into an external amplifier or device once a signal has been taken from the SLAVE .

NOTE: Always start with the SLAVE LEVEL at 7:00 (off) and increase the level slowly to prevent damage to ears, speakers and the input stage of external processors.

NOTE: The SLAVE is not optimized for direct interfacing into recording consoles or live mixing boards. For this application it is best to use the DIRECT OUT."

From the way that I read that...both the power and preamp stages are taken into account, giving the "exact" sound going to the speakers. Pretty much you could just stick a di box in line to the console, and it would correct any level issues.

bongomania · #13 12-20-2007, 11:55 AM

Damnnn... Makes me want to buy a BB750.

Racermech · #14 12-20-2007, 12:03 PM

The V12 is virtually 2 of them together for not that much more. I got my BB750 before the V12 was out, so I am a little bummed.

My current GAS is for a 4x10 RR cab and a 1x15RR both 4ohm, so I could get the whole 750 watts at 2ohm out of the BB750...I doubt I would ever need more cab/power than that unless I started playing stadiums or something.

bongomania · #15 12-20-2007, 12:07 PM

A pair of Genz Neox 212's would be another killer matchup for that.

ihateusernames · #16 12-20-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

Damnnn... Makes me want to buy a BB750.

That's EXACTLY what I thought when reading that post!

ihateusernames · #17 12-20-2007, 07:12 PM

Oh, and back to the topic, I'd also look into a device that not only allows connection between amp and cab with a DI, but also includes a cab emulation since you're using distortion. Palmer on the high end, and Behringer on the low end (price wise).

Gasman · #18 12-20-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanm

According to the docs, the Countryman can take 300V P-P which equals 2,800W into 4 ohms.

alema: The Countryman can be put in between the amp and the speaker.

I've always wondered if a DI could be put after the amp. Is that the only one? Could you put a Sansamp between the amp and the speaker?

ihateusernames · #19 12-20-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasman

I've always wondered if a DI could be put after the amp. Is that the only one? Could you put a Sansamp between the amp and the speaker?

While you could connect it there, it would not be advised and would not work in this fashion. Might cause some damaged components along the way with this!

bongomania · #20 12-20-2007, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasman

I've always wondered if a DI could be put after the amp. Is that the only one? Could you put a Sansamp between the amp and the speaker?

There are a few that can do this (I listed two others above), but not the Sansamp.