New Tube Head, What Should I Expect With Effects?

[metalinthenight]

Hey guys.

So, tomorrow if all goes well, I will be getting my first tube head (a Traynor YBA-200 2) and I was wondering how my effects, or rather effects in general react with tube amps.

I'm asking because some of my effects react differently when I play them through my hybrid set up or some of the solid state amps that I have had. Especially distortions.

What do you guys with tube heads think about this? Is there relatively nothing different? I think not, but I am curious.

[Jared Lash]

I'm always wary of making blanket statements and not having particular experience with that Traynor I can't say for sure.

IME, tube amps are a lot like SS state amps in terms of most effects. Some sound great with effects and some not as much.

EXCEPT for dirt. While it's still very much a matter of taste since tube amps can have very different basic tones, the fact is that tube amps pretty much always sound great with dirt, most of all fuzz.

[aledeville]

Sorry, but that's IMO just crap. Why should a tube amp react? Is she gonna be scared? Horrified?

[robd]

tube amps dont need effects - the distortion is in the tubes - crank the pre amp for distortion

[metalinthenight]

Thank you Jared for posting an intelligent response.

And I wasn't specifically talking about distortion. Of course most distortion and OD pedals are emulating tube amp grind - thats a given. I'm more concerned with other types of pedals, like modulation and delay.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by robd

tube amps dont need effects - the distortion is in the tubes - crank the pre amp for distortion

They sound much like a hybrid amp with the pre tubes pushed. The real sound comes when you push the power tubes.

Get the ear plugs out first.....

[Jonyak]

I concur, that a fuzz pedal in front of a tube amp is like the voice of god.

and yes, its all pushing the power amp, not the pre.

[Jared Lash]

Just to clarify my earlier point, I think dirt pedals sound better through tube amps most of the time (some SS amps like the old GK 800RB excel with dirt too) regardless of whether the tubes are being pushed or not. To me, it's not about the pedal enhancing the grind from sweating tubes (though that is awesome) its just a function of tube amps and their harmonic content that dirt pedals sound good through them even at relatively low volumes.

Like I said, for other modulation it depends on the amp. I always thought tube amps would be indistinct and muddy.

The biggest surprise to me using tube amps after years of only trying solid state gear (other than recording with an old B-15 in college) was that most tube amps aren't "slow" or "mushy" or "grindy" as I'd always been told they were. At most volumes the vast majority of tube amps are far more clean sounding than I'd been led to believe. Some (like the Mesa 400+) are even super hi-fi sounding. I always expected tube amps to have this huge coloration that smeared the tone and made modulation effects sound worse than with SS. Nope. Not what I found at all.

Have I heard tube amps that sound bad with effects? Yup, I can recall one amp in particular that was awful with envelope filters, phasers, chorus etc. But guess what? That amp sounded terrible without effects too.

Again, I don't know the Traynor. But if it sounds good by itself then don't worry - it will sound fine with effects.

[Smallequestrian]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Just to clarify my earlier point, I think dirt pedals sound better through tube amps most of the time (some SS amps like the old GK 800RB excel with dirt too) regardless of whether the tubes are being pushed or not. To me, it's not about the pedal enhancing the grind from sweating tubes (though that is awesome) its just a function of tube amps and their harmonic content that dirt pedals sound good through them even at relatively low volumes.

Like I said, for other modulation it depends on the amp. I always thought tube amps would be indistinct and muddy.

The biggest surprise to me using tube amps after years of only trying solid state gear (other than recording with an old B-15 in college) was that most tube amps aren't "slow" or "mushy" or "grindy" as I'd always been told they were. At most volumes the vast majority of tube amps are far more clean sounding than I'd been led to believe. Some (like the Mesa 400+) are even super hi-fi sounding. I always expected tube amps to have this huge coloration that smeared the tone and made modulation effects sound worse than with SS. Nope. Not what I found at all.

Have I heard tube amps that sound bad with effects? Yup, I can recall one amp in particular that was awful with envelope filters, phasers, chorus etc. But guess what? That amp sounded terrible without effects too.

Again, I don't know the Traynor. But if it sounds good by itself then don't worry - it will sound fine with effects.

So far Jared is the only person in this thread who has said anything sane.

[CopperheadLXXIX]

I used to have the same amp you got (The YBA200 is great, BTW!) and am very much into effects (my board currently snuggles 21 from reverb to delay to fuzz, distortion, etc...)
When I had the YBA200 I put all of my delay and mod stuff after the preamp, and honestly, thought it sounded pretty much the same as in the effects loop of a solid state or hybrid amp.
As stated earlier, probably the only effects that you may notice a distinct difference in are your boosts/overdrives/distortions/fuzzes. Put them in front of the amp, and you can use them to push the preamp tubes, or better yet put them after the pre and slam them straight into the power tubes and you'll get a sound you can't really get from hybrids/ss.

[demon666]

Well I haven't used that amp before, but you should be fine. One thing to remember is that if you push your amp into dirty overdrive sounds (from the amp, not a pedal) they're still gonna be there with whatever effects you got going on. So if your used to sparkly clean delay or mod you might want to keep your amp set clean and use a pedal for dirt.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

<snip> the fact is that tube amps pretty much always sound great with dirt, most of all fuzz.

This man speaks the truth.

[robd]

Originally Posted by hdracer

They sound much like a hybrid amp with the pre tubes pushed. The real sound comes when you push the power tubes.

Get the ear plugs out first.....

I agree that a lot of the "tube amp sound" comes from the power tubes, I tried many tube pre/ss power amp combinations until I went back to an all tube amp with a tube power section. Without the 6550s it just didnt have the tube sound. But I think the yba sounds tube no matter what - pushed hard or not. And with a high gain tube that distorts quickly in the V1 (like the sovteks that come stock in them) you can get fuzz like distortion by cranking the pre amp volume.

But if you are going to use distortion and fuzz pedals you may want to consider putting a 12at7 in the v1 slot and you'll get much more clean volume and headroom from the amp.

Also a good point is made above about possibly running some of the effects thru the loop after the pre section on this amp. I used to run a parametric eq from the pre amp out (after the pre section) and back into the power amp in (just before the power section) and with that I was able to enhance the sound after it went thru the 12ax7's and boost the signal (or more exactly specific parts of the signal that I wanted to emphasize) going into the power section to get a more drive into the power tubes. I thought it worked well as I could really enhance the growl coming out of the 12ax's - which is what I wanted

you'll need to experiment with which effects work better where, some will be better in front of the pre, some after.

[fitz420]

imho, ALL gain based pedals od/dist/fuzz sound better through a tube amp.....having said that i use a SS amp for reliability/weight.