non-funk envelope filter

[omie]

On the cheaper side, digitech bass synth wah can be set subtley to give you a nice rolling bubble... or super funk.. or laser gun.. whatev.

[FilterFunk]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Eris

I think what you're going to want is a pedal with a lot of dials, so you can experiment with different attacks, decays, start and stop frequencies, and maybe most importantly, a blend with your dry signal.

The Enigma, which I own, allows for all those controls and more. No time right now, but I may experiment later and see if I can approximate this tone.

^This. The Attack/Decay/Start/Stop controls of the Enigma give a HUGE range of up or down sweeps. If you set the Start and Stop frequency controls at the same spot, you get a fixed filter with no sweep. You can decide which spots you like best, because both controls at 10:00 sounds very different from both controls turned full right, and there are loads of cool and usable tones in between. Plus you have distortion (which, IMO, is more of a mild but rich fuzz), Q (resonance) and blend.

P.S. After actually listening to the song (which I should have done in the first place), the Enigma certainly should be able to get you that tone.

[knumbskull]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Eris

I'm hearing a pretty quick sweep on the video you referenced. It sounds to me like he's using a warm, mellow tone to begin with, and the filter is set to sweep less high than is typical in funk.

I think what you're going to want is a pedal with a lot of dials, so you can experiment with different attacks, decays, start and stop frequencies, and maybe most importantly, a blend with your dry signal.

The Enigma, which I own, allows for all those controls and more. No time right now, but I may experiment later and see if I can approximate this tone.

thanks - i do like the look of the Enigma, and it's not as costly as most of the really tweakable filters. sounds great in the Jack Conte demo vid.

how is it for volume spikes/consistency? i seem to remember some discussion of this...

[knumbskull]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Interesting... this is something I LOVE, because I LOVE filters.

I think what you're looking for is probably only found in a higher end envelope filter. 75% of the envelope filters only cater to that funky sound, since it's what 95% of the users want out of an envelope filter. Most filters don't give you many options to get away from a funky sound. The better ones do.

Ok... Let's look at what makes those envelope filters sound "funky" or "whacky." The "whacky" sound is made a few things. First, it's made by a pretty high "Q," resonance, intensity, or one of several other descriptions on how tightly the higher frequencies are cut off and receive a slight boost just below the cut-off of frequency. Next is the frequency range of the filter. The "funky" or whacky sound is made with a moderate-sized frequency sweep over the mid-ranges of the bass. The bass on the song in my signature (as of today, I'll change it later) has all these settings on it, and I think it sounds probably exactly what you're NOT looking for.

Lastly, the cheaper envelope filters often have two hard-wired settings that aren't changeable, but lend themselves to a "funky" sound since that's what sells. One is that the frequency sweeps are only set to "up" sweeps, where the harder or louder you play, the more the highs come through. A "down" sweep is usually an option on better filters, and won't sound quite as 'funky' (although it can). Also, the attack and release of the filter is set usually to moderately fast to give the bass that bubbly sound. Higher end filters can be set to have a very fast or slower attack, both of which will move away from a funky sound. Also, changing a release speed away from moderately fast will make it sound less funky, too.

With a higher end filter, there are a vast number of sounds you can get that won't sound typically "bubbly" or "funky." It just takes a bit of knowledge to coax them out of the pedal. Additionally, they may have multiple frequency sweeps, which add a totally different dimension to the sound.

As such, if you start messing with settings that DON'T follow one or more of the sounds typical with funky envelope filters, then it won't sound as bubbly. For example, a moderately slow filter with the frequency sweep set fairly wide from mid to high on a "down" setting, it will NOT sound bubbly or funky.

The bottom line is that filters are crazy fun with a ton of options, if you get the right pedal. You're probably looking for a higher end one, and you just need to move the settings away from the typical ones set for that "funky" sound as I described. It can be done, but just read up on what envelope filters do, and then forge away from that funky sound.

Also, I always suggest tossing a bit of overdrive or fuzz before the pedal in the signal chain. That really brings out the filter's effect more dramatically. When trying out pedals at the guitar store, I strongly suggest getting the salesman to put a OD or fuzz pedal on the bass before the filter.

Good luck, and happy hunting!

thanks very much for this! really helpful. i think i may print it out for reference

i think i will be looking at the higher end stuff, if only because that seems to offer more flexibility in settings, as you say.

[knumbskull]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

I went on this exact same quest a few years ago, and went through so many envelope filters trying to find that. I wanted something that did more of a "bwow" sound, and less of that quacking duck sound. Basically, you're going to need an envelope filter that has slow/fast controls (set it to slow), and then turn down both the Q and the sensitivity controls a bit. The filter won't open all the way up, will be less peaky, and will sweep slower. Alteratively, some filters also allow you to change the direction of the filter to sweep down instead of up; that may also be what you're looking for.

I ended never really finding the perfect filter for me, and just buckled down and learned how to use a wah. I've been using the Wilson Freaker wah for the last few years, and I'm still thrilled with it.

interesting - again, cheers, this is really useful.

oh and Wilson Freakers seem hard to come by? (in the UK, at least)

[knumbskull]

Originally Posted by mmbongo

I didn't like the Proton because it's not funky/quacky. You might like it!

good recommendation! actually the Proton is now on my list... local supplier is out of stock but i guess the new ones will arrive at some point.

[knumbskull]

as a general point, thanks all others for the recommendations/info/etc.

much as i love what Iron Ether do, i think the Xereograph may be overkill for my needs... i already have one "total tonal mayhem" pedal on my board!

MXR - i did try this one out a few months back. great pedal, but the sound didn't do it for me, at least in the shop.

[chief redcok]

I think Ive tried/had more filters than the average person.. Ive been using a Moog MF101, but these guys are right. I just got the new Proton in the mail the other day, wow this pedal is impressive, by far the nicest enclosure Ive seen on any pedal.. Spencer did a great job and now that there is a Decay knob I don't see why you wouldn't want this pedal, it sounds like exactly what you need..

[Bassist4Eris]

Originally Posted by knumbskull

thanks - i do like the look of the Enigma, and it's not as costly as most of the really tweakable filters. sounds great in the Jack Conte demo vid.

how is it for volume spikes/consistency? i seem to remember some discussion of this...

I play an 18v active bass as my main instrument. I had a heck of a time finding an auto wah that didn't put out awful resonant peaks with my bass. The Enigma solved this for me. Again, it's all in the "dial-in-ability" of this unit. There's also a peak indicator on the unit, which helps. It lights up well before anything ugly comes out of your speakers.

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by knumbskull

thanks very much for this! really helpful. i think i may print it out for reference

i think i will be looking at the higher end stuff, if only because that seems to offer more flexibility in settings, as you say.

No worries. This bass guitar stuff is (like so many of us here at TB) a passion of mine. I can spend all day talking/writing about this stuff!

I've been messing with a few settings. I'm not sure you'd be all that happy with a filter, but I think I'll try making a quick video with different settings highlighted. Maybe that'll shed some light.

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

EDIT: Here's a quickie video that I made. I don't know how successful I was, but here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=563bU...ature=youtu.be

I'm not sure how helpful the video is/was, but it might be!

[JehuJava]

I'd be interested to know which of these high end filters we're all talking about, besides the enigma.

I use an Aguilar filter twin and some envelope filter settings on the Chunk Octavius Squeezer. I like a mellow quack, but curious about the less quacky filter sounds you're all mentioning.

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by JehuJava

I'd be interested to know which of these high end filters we're all talking about, besides the enigma.

I use an Aguilar filter twin and some envelope filter settings on the Chunk Octavius Squeezer. I like a mellow quack, but curious about the less quacky filter sounds you're all mentioning.

The one in the video is a Source Audio BEF Pro. I also have an EXH Enigma Q-balls, but that one tends to be a bit more extreme then the Source Audio. The Q-balls is less versatile, as you only can choose high pass, low pass or band pass, but not how many frequency peaks or poles you can use. The BEF has literally dozens of pass settings to choose from. However, even the Q-balls is more versatile then most envelope filters. The Q-balls still allows the user to set the attack and delay times, for example. That said, it's a tougher to use the Q-balls to get not-so duck-quacking, funky whacking tones then other higher end filters, but still loads easier then standard bass envelope filters.

For those who may not know, the band-pass setting is sort of the opposite of a notch-pass. Band pass only lets certain frequencies through, but cuts off the highs and lows (whereas notch keeps the highs and lows, but cuts out a select frequency in the middle somewhere). The center of the frequencies that pass through on a band-pass change depending on how hard you play.

[Laurent]

Two ideas here:

Dunlop Bass Wah - since you control the patern you can play around the funk tone.
See Rage Against the Machine as example - he uses two at the same time.

Mutron III from Haz: the modern version not the original.

[knumbskull]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

I'm not sure how helpful the video is/was, but it might be!

PM sent, but seriously, this video is great - it should be required watching for anyone with questions about filters.

EDIT: video link here as it should be really useful for others - let me know if you'd prefer to take it down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=563bU...ature=youtu.be

i think you may have nailed my dream tone at about 5:48!

...the downsweep. hmmm. actually hadn't considered the Soundblox before this.

7:07 is a bit dubstepp-y

8:20 to about 8:30 - whoah!

...also, i have a B:Assmaster too so good choice of fuzz

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by knumbskull

PM sent, but seriously, this video is great - it should be required watching for anyone with questions about filters.

EDIT: video link here as it should be really useful for others - let me know if you'd prefer to take it down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=563bU...ature=youtu.be

i think you may have nailed my dream tone at about 5:48!

...the downsweep. hmmm. actually hadn't considered the Soundblox before this.

7:07 is a bit dubstepp-y

8:20 to about 8:30 - whoah!

...also, i have a B:Assmaster too so good choice of fuzz

Thanks. I love spending time on this crap. LOVE IT, especially with filters (with a bit of OD or fuzz just ahead of it in the chain).

BTW, the full chain I used when I kicked on the Phasor the Octave is:

Bass --> EHX Bass Microsynth [with the -1 octave up, the original signal cut, =a bit of +1 octave, and the built in filter/envelope sweep set all the way up so that there's essentially no filter on it] --> B:assmaster fuzz --> Source Audio BEF Pro --> MXR Phase 90 --> amp

[moose23]

I've been using a Big Muff variant into an old Ibanez Phase Tone PT999 for pseudo envelope filter in my psych/space rock band but tempted to go all out and build a Meatball clone. I'll see if I can dig out a sample of what it sounds like.

[knumbskull]

just going to bump this as i am now looking keenly at the Mooer Sweeper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yptbqT86wWg

it's a pretty functional Bassballs clone and very afforable. seems like it would be good for rock/psych/non-funk applications. there is a whole thread on Mooer here so search if you're curious

i would LOVE to get a Proton... waiting on getting some cash from wedding gigs!

the Source Audio stuff gets great results but something keeps me away from it. anyway thanks again to all those who contributed to the thread

[TussinBot.]

Im in the market for a filter too. I play rock, and basically want to replace my wah with something smaller that I dont have to stand at. Ive been looking at the subdecay proteus for a long time, but they are hard to find used. Possibly a proton

[knumbskull]

I'm going to bump this because i finally picked up a Mooer Bass Sweeper.

first impressions: Atomic Bitchwax in a box! - with the dirt ON, that is. run clean, it's nicely tweakable while keeping the lows intact. it can do funk, but the Bassballs sound lends itself really well to rock/riffs.

PS i watched Ubersheist's video again last night - in a non creepy way - and i'd recommend it heartily