Octave + 5th for guitar power chord sim

[CYDbass]

Have tried some searching and only found this thread Octave Up Fuzz for Note Doubling and Guitar "Sim"? which went a bit off topic. It dealt with plenty about octaving and fuzz but not really about the +5th, which is mainly what I'm looking for! I feel I can sort the rest faily easily.

I did find from here that if I want to try and do what the title says (filling out the space of a rhythm guitarist in a three piece) my options are the EHX HOG, Akai Unibass or other combinations.
The HOG looks good, but I dont really need all the features and therefore cant justify the price. All I want is a pedal which can generate an octave up from what I'm playing and a 5th above that (i.e. the 12th of the scale).
+2 octaves from original would be a bonus, but is not really necessary.
Also I'd like to be able to run my effected (guitar power chord) signal out into a seperate channel from the dry signal for later mixing back with my bass signal or possibly to run into a guitar amp.

If I did want this setup, what's my best option? The HOG is too expensive, but i was thinking of an EHX Micro POG as being my next purchase anyway, could I maybe combine this with (really not sure on this) something like a PS-5 to produce the 5th on top of the +1 octave?

All feedback is very much appreciated, hearing from anyone who has attempted the same thing would be great

[Bob C]

The Akai Unibass is designed to do exactly what you want. It was marketed as a "rhythm guitar in a box", or something like that. Do a search for "Unibass"
to learn more.

They are no longer in production, but not all that rare. And their prices aren't inflated to the degree of Akai Deep Impacts. I recently bought one on eBay for just under $200. There is currently a listing for one at $250 last time I checked. I'm not sure what they went for new.

The Unibass can blend in to (parallel to, actually) your constant dry signal, or you can split the signals with two outs. The cool thing about this is that you can run additional effects on the "fake guitar" signal only. From there, you can go into two amps (I did this at home - pretty cool) or channels, OR Y back into one amp input.

Is the PS-5 a Boss pitch shifter? That will probably get you there too. So will the Digitech Bass Whammy, I believe. Undoubtedly, there are a few more choices. The Unibass is the only one I've tried, and it's pretty cool. Alone, it does sound kind of mechanical, but reportedly works well in the band context (I haven't had a chance to demo mine live yet).

[rottenramone]

an eventide pitchfactor is highly recommended. but its pricey.

[rratajski]

There's a used HOG in my local Guitar Center for $250 USD!!!
I would highly recommend getting one used, since $ is an issue
The Octave + 5th with my dry tone is killer!!!

[Nyarlathotep]

For octave up+octave and a 5th up I use my GT-10B. It has a Pitch Shift effect that can do 2 shifts at once.

Obviously the GT is a little overkill. I don't know if the smaller multies from boss have the double PS thing or not, but the octave up stuff I've heard from the Line 6 M9 sounds promising. Pitch Bend +1 octave, no direct blend -> PB +5th up, w/ direct blend (since the "direct" at that point is the + octave). TaySte has a sample of it, linked in the Wiki IIRC.

Other than that.... I don't think the Whammy does octave up + octave and a 5th. Prolly just 5th up harmony or +octave bend, but not both IIRC. The Eventide PitchFactor or Akai Unibass would be you're best bet at this point TBH.

For that thread you link, I was mostly looking for an octave up fuzz for that, but I really don't think it would work as well as pitch bending. Octave fuzzes are still pretty awesome in their own right tho. The super fuzz clone that I have (Tentacle Love SF, but Robot Factory) does a pretty good guitar sim on its own mostly cus of its blend.

[CYDbass]

Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep

For octave up+octave and a 5th up I use my GT-10B. It has a Pitch Shift effect that can do 2 shifts at once.

Obviously the GT is a little overkill. I don't know if the smaller multies from boss have the double PS thing or not, but the octave up stuff I've heard from the Line 6 M9 sounds promising. Pitch Bend +1 octave, no direct blend -> PB +5th up, w/ direct blend (since the "direct" at that point is the + octave). TaySte has a sample of it, linked in the Wiki IIRC.

...The Eventide PitchFactor or Akai Unibass would be you're best bet at this point TBH.

For that thread you link, I was mostly looking for an octave up fuzz for that...

Thanks, some great info .
Again, the problem with multis is I'll feel that I'm not really getting my money's worth if I'm only really using it for the guitar sim. Granted it coud be used for other things too, but if i was running the octave it would mean I couldn't do much else with it really. Not saying yours was a bad choice though, I'm sure it works well!
Money is not really easy for me, I'm a student in England. Being a student is bad enough, but with the way our £££s are at the minute its bloody terrible looking at anything expensive over here! And the Line 6 M9 is even more expensive than the EHX HOG over here! £300+

Looks like I'm going to have to shop around for a Unibass over here! Or follow your idea and just go for a loud, fuzzy octave up sound to make a guitar sim. Think I'll try that for now!

[stflbn]

Line 6 M9/M13 can do this. Octave down, Octave up, or specific amount of notes up of your choosing, even following a specific key if you choose.

Just depends what you add into the scene.

[cheapbasslovin]

The HOG works real well, but I think without the cash for a harmonizer, you'll have a tough nut to crack.

One thing you can do is run an octave down in parallel with your highs focused fuzz or distortion pedal. You get a nice separation as the octave down and the dirt have completely separate tones, and you can EQ your dirty signal to emphasize your overtones. You won't get your 5ths, but you will get a much fuller sound than just a fuzz. Play your stuff up an octave or two (if you have it) and let the effects do the rest. Boss LS-2s and OC-2s come pretty cheap used, and there are thousands of guitar distortions that are available cheap.

My last option is that the Zoom B2 or G2 has some pitch shifting that isn't very good in a 'makes a smooth harmony' sort of way, but it has an interesting sound that may be good enough (or just right) for your situation. Worth a listen if you have an opportunity.

[CYDbass]

Originally Posted by cheapbasslovin

The HOG works real well, but I think without the cash for a harmonizer, you'll have a tough nut to crack.

One thing you can do is run an octave down in parallel with your highs focused fuzz or distortion pedal. You get a nice separation as the octave down and the dirt have completely separate tones, and you can EQ your dirty signal to emphasize your overtones. You won't get your 5ths, but you will get a much fuller sound than just a fuzz. Play your stuff up an octave or two (if you have it) and let the effects do the rest. Boss LS-2s and OC-2s come pretty cheap used, and there are thousands of guitar distortions that are available cheap.

My last option is that the Zoom B2 or G2 has some pitch shifting that isn't very good in a 'makes a smooth harmony' sort of way, but it has an interesting sound that may be good enough (or just right) for your situation. Worth a listen if you have an opportunity.

Thanks again
To be honest it looks like I'm going to have to get saving and get a HOG if I want the kind of sound I'm looking for. Even though I thought it was expensive, it actually seems the cheapest way, and since I posted this thread I've spent about an hour searching for and watching demo videos of the HOG. Seems a damn good piece of kit, but I only found demos on electric guitar and not bass. Will have to do some further searching
Or alternatively, I could look into your perfectly good option of synthesising the octave down and playing higher up on the bass, maybe playing the 5ths. For the time being, a used Octave down pedal, some more fuzz (sigh) and a change in the plans will probably be the way to go

[Grimoire]

There's a UK auction for a Unibass at the moment on evilbay. A store in the city here in Brum still had some in stock six months or so back, not sure if they would still have any. They were selling them for £79

[Jared Lash]

If you really just want octave + 5th, the Unibass is exactly the pedal for you. It has the most realistic sounding octave up that I've found and the built in distortion (that you can turn off and on) sounds more than decent.

For a "rhythm guitar emulator" it's the best I've heard.

[cheapbasslovin]

Originally Posted by CYDbass

Thanks again
To be honest it looks like I'm going to have to get saving and get a HOG if I want the kind of sound I'm looking for. Even though I thought it was expensive, it actually seems the cheapest way, and since I posted this thread I've spent about an hour searching for and watching demo videos of the HOG. Seems a damn good piece of kit, but I only found demos on electric guitar and not bass. Will have to do some further searching
Or alternatively, I could look into your perfectly good option of synthesising the octave down and playing higher up on the bass, maybe playing the 5ths. For the time being, a used Octave down pedal, some more fuzz (sigh) and a change in the plans will probably be the way to go

http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.p...p_Database#EHX

Scroll down a bit to the HOG section and there's a bunch of clips I did. None of those include any instrument other than a SX fretless jazz. They are all bass > effects > crappy behringer interface. There's a lot of Holy Stain and English Muff'n mixed in there, but it's difficult to avoid the organ sound without some kind of distortion.

[bigchiefbc]

I've posted this before, but give this a listen. It's not octave + fifth, its just 1 octave and 2 octave on a POG, then a Turbo Rat for distortion. I still think it pretty much nails the rhythm guitar sound:

http://www.bassfxpedals.com/clips/pog-rhythm-guitar.mp3

[gumtownbassman]

You could always pass the buck back to the guitarist, get him to do rhythm and lead at the same time.
I've been down this road for the last 20 years, and even though i use a GT-10B multi effects, you don't really need to be the one who has to try and do the job of 2.
If your band is really good and tight, you shouldn't really need to fill the sound during a lead break, if it is a problem, get a rhythm guitarist too.

[CYDbass]

Originally Posted by gumtownbassman

You could always pass the buck back to the guitarist, get him to do rhythm and lead at the same time.
I've been down this road for the last 20 years, and even though i use a GT-10B multi effects, you don't really need to be the one who has to try and do the job of 2.
If your band is really good and tight, you shouldn't really need to fill the sound during a lead break, if it is a problem, get a rhythm guitarist too.

One thing that we're told pretty regular is that we sound tight and work well together, so maybe theres not really much of a hole in the sound during solos, but I'd just like the option to beef it up a bit for want of better wording.
And I do see the idea of passing it back to the guitarist, but since we're only a three piece and he's already dealing with lead vocals as well as lead guitar and some rhythm parts, I feel I could help him out a bit if I could take on some more of the rhythm.

[walker rosewood]

Those clips are very useful. Does anybody have any sound clips of the unibass?

I too am the bassist for a trio. So far I've been somewhat successful with just an octave up (well, down really) and a distortion on my me50b, but it would be nice to add more. The akai unit has separate outs for the dry and octaves, so you can run the octave stuff to a guitar amp/effects chain, etc. Can the HOG do that?

I just saw another rock trio last night (myspace.com/fmgreen). The guitarist took lots of solos, and they sounded pretty full. I had this thread in mind while listening. I think a key element on the guitarists end is a nice tube amp with a rich, warm, full sound. If not, then the bassist would definitely have to step up.

[cheapbasslovin]

Originally Posted by walker rosewood

The akai unit has separate outs for the dry and octaves, so you can run the octave stuff to a guitar amp/effects chain, etc. Can the HOG do that?

Hog has a dry out and an effect out.

[CYDbass]

Originally Posted by walker rosewood

Those clips are very useful. Does anybody have any sound clips of the unibass?

I too am the bassist for a trio. So far I've been somewhat successful with just an octave up (well, down really) and a distortion on my me50b, but it would be nice to add more. The akai unit has separate outs for the dry and octaves, so you can run the octave stuff to a guitar amp/effects chain, etc. Can the HOG do that?

I just saw another rock trio last night (myspace.com/fmgreen). The guitarist took lots of solos, and they sounded pretty full. I had this thread in mind while listening. I think a key element on the guitarists end is a nice tube amp with a rich, warm, full sound. If not, then the bassist would definitely have to step up.

Since I started this I've been trying to find clips of the Unibass as well, theres one on youtube that I found, but I had to go out so my searching was cut short. It about to begin again now, so I'll post anything else I find, but for now here's that youtube clip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2YHS6wEGnQ

And as for the HOG, that seems to be pretty much the perfect tool for the job of filling out a ryhthm guitarists place, go on the EHX website and theres some demos (only on guitar admittedly) that are great to watch. Theres so many great features in that thing it would be brilliant to have, but it's just so damned expensive!

So now, or more accurately, when I get some spare cash, the hunt for a UB1 will begin

[walker rosewood]

I saw the EHX website, but the video's won't work for me. Looking for bass demo's anyhow. Any thoughts on HOG + a distortion pedal VS UB1 with the built in dist.?

[walker rosewood]

Originally Posted by rratajski

There's a used HOG in my local Guitar Center for $250 USD!!!
I would highly recommend getting one used, since $ is an issue
The Octave + 5th with my dry tone is killer!!!

FYI, if this was referring to the one at the Albany store. I just snagged it.

However, it does not have the expression pedal with it, which is normally included when purchased new. The guy at GC said he would contact EHX to see about getting one. Since I don't trust gc to come through.... anybody know where to get it? edit *did some research, it's just a cheap m-audio expression pedal. There are other nicer pedals that are compatible*

and still keeping an eye open for a UB1