Octave pedal lowness rule?

[MammaryVest]

I've been fooling around with an octave effect recently, and I was wondering if anyone else finds that it doesn't sound very good when you play already low notes with the effect on. I think it sounds kind of muddy, and wanted to know if it was the "standard" not to play that low when using the octave.

[JanusZarate]

It is a sort of practical "standard"... any octave pedal will start to get muddy on those low notes. Playing an open E on an octave pedal is like detuning a B string... you just can't expect much definition.

IMO, octave pedals sound better on the upper notes (and not the lower notes) of a bass. Guitars have more room to play with, but that's because they can't naturally go as low as we can with basses.

I'm not saying you can't play that low, but it's a bit impractical to do so unless you're aiming for that glitchiness or deep muddiness on purpose.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by MysticBoo

It is a sort of practical "standard"... any octave pedal will start to get muddy on those low notes.

+1
Some are better at tracking low notes than others, and some put out a cleaner/muddier sub-octave tone than others, but it's a very common problem.

[markjazzbassist]

+1 to both Boo and Bongo.

If you really want the clarity of the low notes you should look at going digital. Usually they can track and reproduce the lower notes better. Try an EHX POG.

[nad]

I never use an octaver below the open A string, and even that is pushing it.

[sonicvi]

The open E string is already down to 40Hz, drop it an octave and you're at 20Hz, which is about as low as it goes for human hearing. Pianos don't even go that low.

[high mileage]

I had a hard time going below D, but since I added a compressor in front of it C is no problem. That's as low as I need to go anyway - the octave is 1/2 step above an open low B.

[Joe P]

I've used low-on-low in two instances, with some useful results:

1) I've used the Boss OC-3, in Poly mode, with a HIGH-PASS on the octave-part (on the effected signal). I finally recently got an LS-2 switcher, so I'm able to run paralleled effects loops. What I used for highpass is part of the effect too - I used a CEB-3, with a dummy-plug in the second output jack; this causes only the effect to come out the other jack (a pitch-modulated, slightly-delayed, high-passed copy of the original - which, in this case, is mostly the octave-down signal from the OC-3 poly mode - it works to add-in a tad of the clean too). Like I've brought-up before - the OC-3 poly-mode has many harmonics (remember? -'blowing across a jug' harmonics), and by filtering-out all but the harmonics, and then vibrato-ing it on top of that, is trippy and useful to blend back into the clean (I mean: 'the rest of the') signal. It's a little ring-mod-ish down there on the low notes. I wouldn't usually gig with this, though, because I only have ONE of each (chorus and octaver), and I need those 'in their regular place' in the effects chain!

2) When using hard distortion after the octaver (which I DO use in my normal setup - ODB-3), then what I often do is this procedure:
- do a normal distortion setup, withOUT the down-octave
- turn-on the octave (any mode or setting you want), with all the outputs turned down.
- turn-up the octave level (one or two octaves down; your choice) until you're just tickling the clip-point (for my gain-maxed ODB, this is way-way down-there - almost as low as it will go). I'm saying 'almost clean'; just-maybe starting to clip at the plucking force you're going to use (I usually use a compressed signal).
- turn the clean back up to unity-gain; on mine, it's about 3:00.
What this does is get the clean bass signal 'riding-on' this very low amplitude, low-low octave wave (it's pretty cool with TWO octaves down, in OC-2 mode), swinging the signal back-and-forth into 'top-clip, bottom-clip, top-clip, bottom-clip'. It's real gargly-synthy, and works all-over the neck. Give it a try!

Joe

[caesarbass]

My Digitech Bass Synth Wah has no problems hitting the octave below open "E."

[Lowpro]

It's also a digital pedal meant to handle bass, kinda defies the rule.

Akai deep Impacts also track well, but it isn't an octave pedal. I justlike typing the word Akai.

[figuredbass]

Originally Posted by nad

I never use an octaver below the open A string, and even that is pushing it.

+1 Exactly! A low B is where I can still clearly discern the pitch of the note, Bb is in the Twilight Zone, and low A (or open A) is suddenly below the ground, but just barely usable in some cases. I can still track notes all the way down to low E, but they're of no practical musical use, except for an ocassional sound effect.

[joelc1319]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

I justlike typing the word Akai.

+1

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by sonicvi

The open E string is already down to 40Hz, drop it an octave and you're at 20Hz, which is about as low as it goes for human hearing. Pianos don't even go that low.

The real issue for hearing the suboctave stuff is not about reproducing low fundamentals, but the overtones.

[myro255]

off topic but

Octaver + a bass tuned ADGC

[JanusZarate]

Originally Posted by myro255

off topic but

Octaver + a bass tuned ADGC

...I don't get it. What are you asking for?

OH...

...IMHO, a sub-octave pedal would be absolutely pointless and impractical, in your case.

Now, using an octave-up pedal could be useful...

[bongomania]

I think maybe he meant the higher three strings plus a high C, a piccolo setup, for which a suboctaver would be perfect!

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by bongomania

I think maybe he meant the higher three strings plus a high C, a piccolo setup, for which a suboctaver would be perfect!

That'd be a "tenor bass" - not a "piccolo". I'm guessing you knew that ; }

[JanusZarate]

Originally Posted by bongomania

I think maybe he meant the higher three strings plus a high C, a piccolo setup, for which a suboctaver would be perfect!

ADGC is seen more often as a detuned BEAD, IME.

After all, metalcore/hardcore downtuning is oddly common nowadays

[OhThePeacock]

You guys are talking about sub octave pedals not octave up right?

[bongomania]

Mostly.