Octaver from analog to digital? - advice please

[Chris K]

Guys, I'm an exclusively fretless player. A few months ago I started experimenting with the Boss OC-2 in a band that plays a mixture of acid jazz, r&b, soul... I use it for solo's but also for full band stuff.

General sound with the pedal one octave down is pretty much OK, massive, punchy...

Problems:
- the OC-2 does not work well under low A (I read somewhere this is a common problem with analog octavers)
- it tracks fine up the neck, but is remarkably slow on open strings, making the direct note sound like a grace note to the lower octave; is this a general problem with the OC-2 or just with the one I to have?
- it cannot generate a higher octave

Which octave pedal might serve my needs better?

[johndough247]

I might be wrong but doesn't ElectroHarmonix make a bass synth (micro bass synth?) pedal that does the up-ocatave thing?...was curious about that same issue years back and thats what i found i believe...

[RHCP250]

It's expensive but the Foxrox Octron does both down and up, and is supposed to track quite well. Opposite of the OC-2 sound though.

[Nic.]

Higher octave while still being analogue, I recommend the Foxrox Octron. I use it with my fretless quite a lot. I'll get a recording of it over the weekend. Tracks very well. I've a song where I'm using it while doing a riff that uses the open E and the first few "frets" of the low E a lot, and I don't get problems with tracking up... as for tracking down, I don't *hear* problems with it, but when it's set to up, down AND blend, I don't think I'll be hearing much of the octave down except a low rumble anyway.

I wanted the Bass Microsynth or the POG, but I have no more space on my pedalboard. Based on videos of it, though, it's very different, it's clean and chimey instead of gritty.

[bongomania]

There are actually a great many analog octave-up pedals! The one caveat is that a pedal-format analog octave-up is inherently distorted, because it turns the original signal into a square wave and then doubles the frequency of that wave. It is possible to use analog circuits to create upper intervals that aren't square waves, but that is not something you will find in any pedal.

[*insertcoolname]

OC-3 will do everything you're looking for except the octave up. I suppose that's something important for you but if it's not then I'd try out the 3.

[cybersnyder]

I'd recommend getting an M9. The octave down is great, octave up is artificial but I've never heard an octave up that isn't. You can run the octave up the octave up through some other effects to hide the artificial artifacts. Add an expression pedal and there is a lot to experiment with.

[sillyfabe]

Octron is the best analog way to go for both +and -1 octave. best digital is either the micro POG or the fancy way is the POG2. I personally use a OC-2 for fat -1 oct analog goodness and a PS-3 Digital pitch shifter (using the exp pedal to dial in whatever I want and leaving it there) for digital +- 2 oct. I use to have a POG2 but decided the PS-3 better suited my needs and oh boy it does!

[Robertron]

I've never had tracking issues with my MicroPOG. The Octave up sounds really robotic though.

[t3ch]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

octave up is artificial but I've never heard an octave up that isn't.

+1

[bassbrad]

First off Keep the OC2 nothing else does what it does,learned that the hard way, but there are a couple of other solutions to consider.
For the octave up if you can find an Akai Uni Bass it is the most natural sounding and works great with my fretless basses.
Most multi effects have pitch shifters and harmonizers and my Zoom B2 and B2.1u do really well and sound just as good as stand alone pedals like the POG or PS3.

[Nic.]

@Chris-

I recorded my Octron with a fretless. Not a very good recording since I was twiddling with the knobs and stuff, but it's just to show what the octron does. It's not acid jazz, r&b, soul (actually to me these stuff means "clean bass"), I was playing a rock/metal kind of bassline since that was what I mainly use this octave with, but I guess it can show you the tracking on the octaver. In fact, after uploading the files, I went back to playing and I realized my volume on the bass was set to almost minimum which is why the octave down cut out a little. Turning it up on the bass and turning it down after the octaver resulted in better tracking (but I'm lazy to take out my H4n and go record again). The clacking is because it's much nearer my bass than the amp (on the other end of the room) so you can hear the strings hitting the fretboard when I dig in.

Recordings done by turning on my H4n, putting it on the table, plugging my fretless into my pedalboard and then into my Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0-10T.

First is clean, then I clicked on my octaver set to octave down only, without octave up and clean. It seems to sound about the same pitch on the recording, but I guess that's just because either I can't hear the lower frequency on my speakers or the recorder couldn't pick it up. It was set to around 42hz sampling so I guess maybe ~20hz was too low to be picked up?

Next clean, then when I turn on the octron it's octave up, without any clean or octave down. As you can see, the octave up is significantly louder than the octave down or clean. Got to take note of that when blending.

Finally, I turn on a blend of up, down and clean. As I play I twiddle the knobs with my toe, first I removed -1, then, dialed -1 back up and turned down +1 After that, I turned up +1 and turned down clean.

Hope this helps with your decision!
http://www.4shared.com/audio/HHcBJ4A...ox_octron.html

[Chris K]

Nic, thank you! You are very helpful. I do most of my stuff on clean fretless bass, but some of the acid jazz stuff benefits from octaving. Most of what I hear on your track is good for roch/metal, but not for my stuff, since it lacks warmth.
So, no Octron for me.

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

I'd recommend getting an M9. The octave down is great, octave up is artificial but I've never heard an octave up that isn't. You can run the octave up the octave up through some other effects to hide the artificial artifacts. Add an expression pedal and there is a lot to experiment with.

Very insightful. As I would like to avoid 'artificial' elements, the octave up is out of the question so far.

[Nic.]

Originally Posted by Chris K

Nic, thank you! You are very helpful. I do most of my stuff on clean fretless bass, but some of the acid jazz stuff benefits from octaving. Most of what I hear on your track is good for roch/metal, but not for my stuff, since it lacks warmth.
So, no Octron for me.

You're welcome! Hmm now that you mention, yes the octave up/down indeed is pretty cold and harsh. Usually I run it through my Distortron set to very low gain after that (it's my "tube overdrive emulator") so I don't really notice.

[dmusic148]

Analog octave pedals are like an instrument all their own- you eventually learn how to play them well- to use them in ways that avoid their inherent shortcomings (tracking, mostly). For example you avoid long tones and stick to shorter, staccato lines, and don't play down low. It's worth it IMO. If you 'play' them correctly they reward with fat, synthy tones that just aren't duplicated by digital pedals. My DOD Octoplus can't be beat for example, in 'I Wish,' IMO. Used it tonight for that tune and the band was blown away.

On the other hand digital pedals do things analog pedals can't. So I suggest you have both!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

On the other hand digital pedals do things analog pedals can't. So I suggest you have both!

that's the conclusion i came to. started with the micro pog and really like the octave up (yes, it's a bit electronic but in a mix it sounds enough like an 8 string bass for my tastes), but the octave down is kind of meh, so i got an oc-2. so far i can't find anything i like better. there may be better out there, but these pedals win for me.

[knumbskull]

Originally Posted by Robertron

I've never had tracking issues with my MicroPOG. The Octave up sounds really robotic though.

yeah, i found this too - the tracking was pretty much flawless but i sold mine in the end as i couldn't get on with the overly 'clean'-sounding tone.

...having said that, a bit of modulation (phaser, in my case) smoothed out the high octave a bit.

[Laurent]

MXR M-288 Octave Deluxe has been working really well for me. I since sold my boss pedals which did not sound as good or track as well.

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

I'd recommend getting an M9.

You don't think that's overkill when the dude just wants an octaver?