Which Octaver? POG vs Octron HELP!

[smo]

Hi all,

I'd like to thank all of you for helping me previously first.
Right - now that's out the way;

I have a bit of a unique situation.......

I've just been offered a Micro POG, and an Octron to buy from two separate people, in the space of 24 hours.
And I'm unsure which one to go for, since I'll have absolutely no opportunity to trial the Octron before I buy it.

I play de-tuned (thats C, F, A#, D# ) 4 bangers, both active and passive, and mainly play stoner rock type stuff.
I like - no make that LOVE - Overdrive and attempt to sparingly use fuzz and phaser and like a bit of Bass Wah occasionally too.

I've heard that the POG can be a little thin on the lower octave, which worries me
And that the Octron is not super clean on the upper octave - which doesn't worry me - as long as the lower octave IS close to clean.

What power does the Octron need?

Please help me!

Thanks all,
smo

Which one should I go for?
Assuming price is equal - which one would YOU go for?

[markjazzbassist]

POG. if you're playing de-tuned you're going to need a digital octaver (POG is). the octron doesn't track (or sound) well below an A.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by markjazzbassist

POG. if you're playing de-tuned you're going to need a digital octaver (POG is). the octron doesn't track (or sound) well below an A.

+1

Also, the Octron isn't super clean on the octave up OR down. Analog octavers just aren't. I've had an Octron, EBS Octabass and a Boss OC-2. None of them are clean on the sub octave, thought the Octron and Octabass are more "natural" sounding with the OC-2 more synthy.

Personally I don't like digital octavers, but I think the POG is the best solution for you. It will track better and sound "cleaner" which it sounds like you're after.

[BobOnBass]

Octron not below an A? So you can't play an open B, or even E for that matter? Bummer, i was checking that baby out myself..... Not for us bass boys then, i would say.

B.

[BobOnBass]

Guys, how do above pedals compare to an Akai Unibass UB1? That's the pedal i have but i'm looking for a more natural sounding upgrade.

B.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by BobOnBass

Octron not below an A? So you can't play an open B, or even E for that matter? Bummer, i was checking that baby out myself..... Not for us bass boys then, i would say.

B.

It's not that it's "not for us bass boys" its simply the way analog octavers are. The Boss, Foxroxx and the EBS (which is specifically made for bass) all have tracking issues below the A on the fifth fret of the E string. For that matter, so does the octaver in the Chunk Octavius Squeezer.

If you want clean octave effects below that point you pretty much have to go digital. Then again, the low E is at 40 Hz so it isn't as if the octave down would be audible, especially with an octaver like the OC-2 which is almost a sine wave meaning few upper harmonics.

[Mark Olson]

Yes, below a certain point tracking doesn't matter to me because even if the octaver could track down that low, your cabinet is not going to be able to reproduce that frequency. Research the specific frequency response of your speakers to see how low they will go, divide the pitch you want to suboctave by two to get the frequency of the suboctave, and if your speakers won't produce that frequency, there's not really any point in having it, right? So for me I've always preferred the tone of analog suboctavers to digital ones, even though the digital ones track better.

[BobOnBass]

Ok. I suppose you guys are talking about octave-down now, right? I am looking for an octave-up. Like a guitar player, tracking your notes. Any thoughts on that? Akai does the trick but to synthy for my taste, have to put some fuzz after it to cover that up. Workable but barely...

B.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by BobOnBass

Guys, how do above pedals compare to an Akai Unibass UB1? That's the pedal i have but i'm looking for a more natural sounding upgrade.

B.

With octavers, the sacrifice for sounding "more natural" (which to me means analog) means worse tracking. But that said, there's really nothing that does what the Unibass does in terms of octave up. At least nothing that does it as well. You could use a POG with dirt, but the UniBass is more versatile (with the fourth down/fifth up options) and sounds better IMO, or you could use a Whammy on harmony mode but again the Akai would still be my pick. If I wanted a pedal to make it sound like my bass was playing in unison with a guitar, I can't think of a better option.

Originally Posted by Mark Olson

Yes, below a certain point tracking doesn't matter to me because even if the octaver could track down that low, your cabinet is not going to be able to reproduce that frequency. Research the specific frequency response of your speakers to see how low they will go, divide the pitch you want to suboctave by two to get the frequency of the suboctave, and if your speakers won't produce that frequency, there's not really any point in having it, right? So for me I've always preferred the tone of analog suboctavers to digital ones, even though the digital ones track better.

True. But the argument I heard a while back and which I think holds some water was along the lines of "I don't care if it can't really reproduce that tone, I just don't want it to be glitchy". That was another person that I believe was ultimately steered toward a POG.

I'm with you though. I'll take a better sounding but worse tracking octaver rather than the reverse.

[Mark Olson]

I sometimes use analog octave fuzzes to get an octave up "guitar player" effect. They're still pretty funky sounding, but if you'd like I did clips of the Prescription Electronics Experience and Clean Octave Blend pedals, both of which do octave up fuzz (analog). You could check those out and compare them to the sound you get out of the Akai.

[BobOnBass]

Thank's a lot guys!!
I'll Check those soundclips when i get back from work, gotta go now.

Cheers, Bob.

[DosiYanarchy]

BOBONBASS:
If its a toss up between a Unibass and a micro POG, and you already have the Unibass, id hold onto it, although its not polyphonic, and the built in distortion is horrible, its got more features (like the +5th/-4th) and you can always put a nicer drive/fuzz after it to cover the digitalness up (as you're doing), and the tracking is really good. And plus the prices will only rise for it as its a discontinues AKAI pedal, I bought mine for £85, and recently seen people to try and sell them for £195 - i dont think it sold, but still.

The micropog has perfect tracking IMO - but i do feel that the sub-octave is quite thin, but not unnaturally so. Of course something like an oc2/oc3 has a much fatter key-board-like tone (if that makes sense) and can actually add low end to your signal.

I have my Micropog set for just an octave up, with a delay and a fuzz (in a loop with a clean blend) to simulate a unison guitar, it works well, especially with riffs but might swap the fuzz (guyatone TZ2) out for something more natural sounding

SMO:
yeah id agree with MarkJazzBassist that with your tuning, if you wanted that octave down, then you'd have to go digital, but as you use such low tunings anyway an octave down might be pretty inaudible anyway. Of course the key with analog octavers, is just play high up (ieast the 12th fret), I play dropped D and my OC3 (in oc2 mode) can just about handle it, but it does fatten up your tone nicely.

Although both oct pedals mentioned have up and down octaves, id have a micropog with all controls at max followed by a fuzz (youd have to experiment with what works best fuzz-wise) for a MASSIVE sound.

[smo]

Originally Posted by DosiYanarchy

id have a micropog with all controls at max followed by a fuzz (youd have to experiment with what works best fuzz-wise) for a MASSIVE sound.

Now you have me
Supercollider
I play a pair of 15's tuned to 40Hz. They do loooow well.

Playing chords and octaves would well with analog or digital, but a simple chugging low bass riff would sound a bit thin on the digital - but almost nothing/glitchy on the analog? Have I got this right?

[DosiYanarchy]

Originally Posted by smo

Now you have me
Playing chords and octaves would well with analog or digital, but a simple chugging low bass riff would sound a bit thin on the digital - but almost nothing/glitchy on the analog? Have I got this right?

Chords and octaves will only work with Polyphonic digital octavers, and if you want both oct up and down, then thats the MicroPOG.

Most octavers are monophonic and will only handle one note at a time without glitching, and if you play fast/sloppy (as i do sometimes) you cant let other notes ring out, of you'll get the glitch.

Can i ask why you want an octaver and what you want to use it for?
Personally if i want to fatten up my sound while still playing up high, ill drop in -1oct blended with my clean tone with my OC3 - if i want that old school drum&bass keyboard tone, ill take away the clean tone and just have -1octave. Now if i want to sound like im playing a 8/12-string bass or i want the sound of a guitar playing in unison with me, ill use the micropog.

[smo]

No worries,

I'm after something that will really fatten up the bass ound when both of the guitarists in my band are having a lead-duel.
I first thought of an octaver, as fuzz kinda steps on toes in the wrong moments.
I like the idea - as we do play a lot of tunes up on the 12th fret - of being able to go up the neck and do a bit of simple solo, while still having a solid low to keep our drummer honest.
I do play a lot of chords, and find myself playing octave's aswell - so I thought the octaver could make it easier for me to sing too.

So it's a POG that'll do it best I'm guessing, cos the analog's a glitchy when using fast transition's or multiple notes.
But is the loooow really that thin on the POG? Is it even worth worrying about, or are we getting a little too audiophile?

[hbarcat]

I've used both. I have nothing bad to say about the Octron but thought it was just okay. I was totally ROCKED by the micro POG. I realize that this is just subjective but the Micro POG really impressed the hell out of me.

[smo]

Thanks everyone - very informative

TB is awesome

[DosiYanarchy]

id say check out youtube for clips

this is the sound of a Boss OC2 played up reasonably high - still sounds fat has all hell
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWt_pKiMl4
Its Pino Palladino, playing with Paul Young

Here's a review i found on Bass on youtube for the micropog - its not my vid, the guy is Bryan Tyler, name sounds familiar from TalkBass.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ZSewV-UfU
see what you think.

The boss pedals arent so bad when playing fast, but you definitely wouldnt wanna play chords regularly with it.

hell thats why i got both the MicroPOG and the OC3, im not made of money but essentially they're so completely different i can justify having both.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Originally Posted by DosiYanarchy

Here's a review i found on Bass on youtube for the micropog - its not my vid, the guy is Bryan Tyler, name sounds familiar from TalkBass.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ZSewV-UfU
see what you think.

The boss pedals arent so bad when playing fast, but you definitely wouldnt wanna play chords regularly with it.

hell thats why i got both the MicroPOG and the OC3, im not made of money but essentially they're so completely different i can justify having both.

I've seen that Bryan Tyler dude around TalkBass too- total d bag.....

The OC-2 sounds quite a lot different than the Micro POG. Nothing can match the POGs at what they do, but the OC-2 has a really great thickness to it. I'd probably own both if I had a little extra room for the OC-2.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by DosiYanarchy

id say check out youtube for clips

this is the sound of a Boss OC2 played up reasonably high - still sounds fat has all hell
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWt_pKiMl4
Its Pino Palladino, playing with Paul Young

Here's a review i found on Bass on youtube for the micropog - its not my vid, the guy is Bryan Tyler, name sounds familiar from TalkBass.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4ZSewV-UfU
see what you think.

The boss pedals arent so bad when playing fast, but you definitely wouldnt wanna play chords regularly with it.

hell thats why i got both the MicroPOG and the OC3, im not made of money but essentially they're so completely different i can justify having both.

I've been looking for an octaver lately myself to get that funky, synth-like sound that the first vid exemplifies so well. I just have a few questions: How much different is the sound of the OC2 from the OC3? And which, between the OC2/OC3 and the Micro POG would get me closest to this tone here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfarOP9rxCc (doesn't really kick in till about 0:25). I know it's more than a little muffled but I'd appreciate any help you guys could give.