Official Virtual AMPEG Portaflex Club

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

Very cool how much of the hiss is gone. Like ALL of it. Duke, you tend to lean towards overdriven tones, which will always amplify noise and usually add some hiss as well, but the Apogee is really clean. Very impressive.
Adam, I really like your tone on the "Beautiful" piece.

Thanks rip ..... The dry or the "amped" ?

[Rip Topaz]

The amped definitely has that Ampeg tone.

The dry still sounds great, I prefer the amped.

[adambomb]

Just a rant I was reading another thread on someone bashin AT again.........

Something I have noticed about hiss and noise in Amplitube....
that even a very clean almost zero hiss, dry signal after going through pedals and amp/cab sim will have a bit of hiss just like a mic'ed amp would.....

You definitely want to "start" with as little noise as possible.
So.....the 30pin is obviously the way to go.......so many people say its "ALL" the interface like the irig.... granted the irig "does in fact" interject noise and hiss to the signal from the electronics in the guts of the irig and crosstalk from the headphone/mic jack.....but......good luck micing an amp and having zero hiss.

Actually not only will you have hiss but also room ambience and fan hums like ac units and wall bounce back and micro phonics from someone taping there foot on the floor. Which most of all the noise is delt with low pass filters and high pass filters and the such in studio situations.

But,....when micing an amp you cannot get around noise and hiss.

It's the nature of a high gain amp. Any noise at all like less than 0.04 noise in an electronic component will start to be amplified from the first piece of gear.
And, Heaven forbid, let there be any noise from a cable run or your bass guitar's electronics..... that gets amplified too.

Toggling on and off the amp sim you will notice the hiss come and go usually more hiss with the amp sim on with a speaker cabinet sim.....ik really does a spot on simulation. When you turn the high knob up and down on the amp sim the hiss gets louder and more quiet and in a real gear situation the more pedals you add and the more gear you add to the chain it gets harder and harder to control noise levels because every step amplifies the previous piece of gear.

The problem with a lot of the hiss most people hear is that they are now listening carefully with headphones. Great headphones too that let you hear everything and i do mean everything.

Most guitar amps are riddled with hiss especially tube amps. But no one cares about hiss when standing in front of one so loud it's blowing your eardrums.........but we all care a whole lot when we are listening through headphones to their tone so meticulously.

Sorry......again ......just a rant. I feel better now..... I knew you guys would listen

[Duke21]

As promised earlier today: Two clips with the new iPad Mini and the Apogee Jam. iOS 6.01.
Rickenbacker 4003. First clip the settings on the Ric and the B15R are towards more old school bass tone, thus little treble and lots of low mids and some bass.
The Second one, well , more "my style", lots of high mids and cranked B15R (master is dimmed and preamp gain is on 75%) with some help from the Møller OD where the gain is on 80% but with the blend on 20-25%.

http://soundcloud.com/duke21/apogee-test-ipad-mini-mix-m4a
http://soundcloud.com/duke21/ric-me-up-apogee-jam-and-ipad

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Just a rant I was reading another thread on someone bashin AT again.........

Something I have noticed about hiss and noise in Amplitube....
that even a very clean almost zero hiss, dry signal after going through pedals and amp/cab sim will have a bit of hiss just like a mic'ed amp would.....

You definitely want to "start" with as little noise as possible.
So.....the 30pin is obviously the way to go.......so many people say its "ALL" the interface like the irig.... granted the irig "does in fact" interject noise and hiss to the signal from the electronics in the guts of the irig and crosstalk from the headphone/mic jack.....but......good luck micing an amp and having zero hiss.

Actually not only will you have hiss but also room ambience and fan hums like ac units and wall bounce back and micro phonics from someone taping there foot on the floor. Which most of all the noise is delt with low pass filters and high pass filters and the such in studio situations.

But,....when micing an amp you cannot get around noise and hiss.

It's the nature of a high gain amp. Any noise at all like less than 0.04 noise in an electronic component will start to be amplified from the first piece of gear.
And, Heaven forbid, let there be any noise from a cable run or your bass guitar's electronics..... that gets amplified too.

Toggling on and off the amp sim you will notice the hiss come and go usually more hiss with the amp sim on with a speaker cabinet sim.....ik really does a spot on simulation. When you turn the high knob up and down on the amp sim the hiss gets louder and more quiet and in a real gear situation the more pedals you add and the more gear you add to the chain it gets harder and harder to control noise levels because every step amplifies the previous piece of gear.

The problem with a lot of the hiss most people hear is that they are now listening carefully with headphones. Great headphones too that let you hear everything and i do mean everything.

Most guitar amps are riddled with hiss especially tube amps. But no one cares about hiss when standing in front of one so loud it's blowing your eardrums.........but we all care a whole lot when we are listening through headphones to their tone so meticulously.

Sorry......again ......just a rant. I feel better now..... I knew you guys would listen

True!

Btw, one thing quite fascinate me, Seamonkey is not visiting this thread, and he love emulation, or at least reading about it.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Thanks rip ..... The dry or the "amped" ?

I've also liked the amped better.

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by adambomb

Just a rant I was reading another thread on someone bashin AT again.........

Something I have noticed about hiss and noise in Amplitube....
that even a very clean almost zero hiss, dry signal after going through pedals and amp/cab sim will have a bit of hiss just like a mic'ed amp would.....

You definitely want to "start" with as little noise as possible.
So.....the 30pin is obviously the way to go.......so many people say its "ALL" the interface like the irig.... granted the irig "does in fact" interject noise and hiss to the signal from the electronics in the guts of the irig and crosstalk from the headphone/mic jack.....but......good luck micing an amp and having zero hiss.

Actually not only will you have hiss but also room ambience and fan hums like ac units and wall bounce back and micro phonics from someone taping there foot on the floor. Which most of all the noise is delt with low pass filters and high pass filters and the such in studio situations.

But,....when micing an amp you cannot get around noise and hiss.

It's the nature of a high gain amp. Any noise at all like less than 0.04 noise in an electronic component will start to be amplified from the first piece of gear.
And, Heaven forbid, let there be any noise from a cable run or your bass guitar's electronics..... that gets amplified too.

Toggling on and off the amp sim you will notice the hiss come and go usually more hiss with the amp sim on with a speaker cabinet sim.....ik really does a spot on simulation. When you turn the high knob up and down on the amp sim the hiss gets louder and more quiet and in a real gear situation the more pedals you add and the more gear you add to the chain it gets harder and harder to control noise levels because every step amplifies the previous piece of gear.

The problem with a lot of the hiss most people hear is that they are now listening carefully with headphones. Great headphones too that let you hear everything and i do mean everything.

Most guitar amps are riddled with hiss especially tube amps. But no one cares about hiss when standing in front of one so loud it's blowing your eardrums.........but we all care a whole lot when we are listening through headphones to their tone so meticulously.

Sorry......again ......just a rant. I feel better now..... I knew you guys would listen

Let me share my thoughts...

I'm hearing impaired folks. The only reasons I can think of why I can learn to play the bass are:

1) God's mercy and grace.
2) Very expensive hearing devices with several custom programs from my audiologist.
3) The bass just happens to fall in a sonic spectrum that is "less hard" for me to perceive and respond to.

If I can spot hiss, trust me, it's there.

You wouldn't believe the trouble I go through to transcribe a song. I've gotten better as I've learned to identify intervals, chords, tempos, keys, etc. You wouldn't believe the trouble I'm having to identify technical solutions to my hearing limitations.

What I'm looking for in something like AT and the iRig is:
1) silent practice
2) modeling
3) convenience of a quick portable virtual rig
4) personal monitor through a mixer when I sub at church (because of the sometimes high sound levels, I wear isolating headphones when I play).

In my experience, AT/iRig sounds good when it sounds good... that's without the hiss and the pops. All I have to compare it to is my Ampeg PF-350 and PF-115HE cab, which to my old ears sounds very good, so that's my point of reference.

I will try a 30 pin interface, but I haven't decided on one yet as I've had other priorities. But the iRig simply has not been the solution I've been looking for. It may very well be user error; I'm sorting it all out as I go at a pace that I can handle.

Sorry for the long post.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by PrietoBass

Let me share my thoughts...

I'm hearing impaired folks. The only reasons I can think of why I can learn to play the bass are:

1) God's mercy and grace.
2) Very expensive hearing devices with several custom programs from my audiologist.
3) The bass just happens to fall in a sonic spectrum that is "less hard" for me to perceive and respond to.

If I can spot hiss, trust me, it's there.

You wouldn't believe the trouble I go through to transcribe a song. I've gotten better as I've learned to identify intervals, chords, tempos, keys, etc. You wouldn't believe the trouble I'm having to identify technical solutions to my hearing limitations.

What I'm looking for in something like AT and the iRig is:
1) silent practice
2) modeling
3) convenience of a quick portable virtual rig
4) personal monitor through a mixer when I sub at church (because of the sometimes high sound levels, I wear isolating headphones when I play).

In my experience, AT/iRig sounds good when it sounds good... that's without the hiss and the pops. All I have to compare it to is my Ampeg PF-350 and PF-115HE cab, which to my old ears sounds very good, so that's my point of reference.

I will try a 30 pin interface, but I haven't decided on one yet as I've had other priorities. But the iRig simply has not been the solution I've been looking for. It may very well be user error; I'm sorting it all out as I go at a pace that I can handle.

Sorry for the long post.

So, what do you think about my latest recordings with the Apogee Jam? Is the sound quality reaching something like the PF350?
The fact that you own a PF350 with a 15" cab is very interesting as even JimmyM approve the PF350 for its B15/ Apmegish tone. Thus, you are a good reference for us!

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by Duke21

So, what do you think about my latest recordings with the Apogee Jam? Is the sound quality reaching something like the PF350?
The fact that you own a PF350 with a 15" cab is very interesting as even JimmyM approve the PF350 for its B15/ Apmegish tone. Thus, you are a good reference for us!

I like the clips you guys have been posting. I think they sound great!

I don't know if it was Rip that posted some clips recorded on an iPhone 4 and iRig, so that only added to my frustration and more lost hairs because I can't get it to sound that clean.

The Jam is an interface I've considered, but as I suspected, it has no output so I imagine you have to go through the iPhone's headphone jack? And it's 100 chocolate kisses.

OTOH, the iRiffPort is $60, and has output(s).

Right now I'm between those two. Will pull the plug soon (but first I gotta take care of some minor upgrades on an Ursa 6 I just received. ).

Yea, the PF-350 is a great lil' amp. And to factor Jimmy's influence, when everybody was talking about the PF-500 cutting issues, I noticed that Jimmy had the 350 with two 115 cabs... so that's what I went with (2nd cab will come sometime in 2013) and I couldn't be happier. So, when it comes to things Ampeg, I'd dare say, ask yourself "What would Jimmy do?" and you should be in the ballpark (my apologies to Jimmy for draggin' him here...)

Edited to add: My laptop is next in line for an upgrade. I want to be able to record nicely and create videos too. So I'll meet you guys, don't worry, but I'm moving in "Prieto Time".

[PrietoBass]

Also Duke, to answer your question more directly, I'll go back and review your clips.

Right now I am infatuated with the sound of a VT Bass Deluxe through the Return jack of the PF-350. I also have the BDDI Dlx. Some of your clips sound close to the sound of my PF-350 with nothing in front of it. I run the horn @ -6dB.

Some variations of the Flip Top style also come close. But the VT and the BDDI are two different animals, and I like them each for different reasons.

I'll pull my sound guy (my son) and run a few blind tests on him and report. Easier to eliminate bias that way.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by PrietoBass

I like the clips you guys have been posting. I think they sound great!

I don't know if it was Rip that posted some clips recorded on an iPhone 4 and iRig, so that only added to my frustration and more lost hairs because I can't get it to sound that clean.

The Jam is an interface I've considered, but as I suspected, it has no output so I imagine you have to go through the iPhone's headphone jack? And it's 100 chocolate kisses.

OTOH, the iRiffPort is $60, and has output(s).

Right now I'm between those two. Will pull the plug soon (but first I gotta take care of some minor upgrades on an Ursa 6 I just received. ).

Yea, the PF-350 is a great lil' amp. And to factor Jimmy's influence, when everybody was talking about the PF-500 cutting issues, I noticed that Jimmy had the 350 with two 115 cabs... so that's what I went with (2nd cab will come sometime in 2013) and I couldn't be happier. So, when it comes to things Ampeg, I'd dare say, ask yourself "What would Jimmy do?" and you should be in the ballpark (my apologies to Jimmy for draggin' him here...)

Edited to add: My laptop is next in line for an upgrade. I want to be able to record nicely and create videos too. So I'll meet you guys, don't worry, but I'm moving in "Prieto Time".

If one consider outputs as well, I would go for the iTrack as it contains a good DAC on both directions and an integrated headphone amp! The iRiffPort might have outputs, but no way it will drive a serious headphone like an AKG K701, HD800 etc.

[Duke21]

Btw, out of all of us here in this thread (mostly me, Adam and Rip) I'm the on which runs with most gain on my clips, I'm am kind of addicted to this OD with lots of high mids and highs... so it (my clips/tone) will be kind of an indicator of what the maximal noise level can be. Adam and Rip are also very and consistent smooth finger players, and they run lower gain setting, usually!

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by Duke21

If one consider outputs as well, I would go for the iTrack as it contains a good DAC on both directions and an integrated headphone amp! The iRiffPort might have outputs, but no way it will drive a serious headphone like an AKG K701, HD800 etc.

Hmmmm... thx for that! Inability to drive my Sennheiser HD280 headphones has been one of my frustrations with the iRig.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by PrietoBass

Hmmmm... thx for that! Inability to drive my Sennheiser HD280 headphones has been one of my frustrations with the iRig.

If your HD280 are "heavy" to drive then the iRiffPort is not the solution as it uses the iPad power. You will need something like the iTrack or the ART unit Adam use
I use a mini mixer or my 4 channel Samson amp to drive my AKG K701.
So before my chain was:
Bass-iRig-iPad-iRig-mini mixer - headphone / or PA
Now:
Bass - Apogee Jam - iPad - mini mixer - headphone/ or PA

At home I use my Ibanez 20W bass combo. I run a cable from the mini mixer into the Aux connection on my Ibanez combo so I bypass the preamp and go strait into the power section. The volume knob on the mixer will determine the volume level of my Ibanez combo.

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by PrietoBass

I like the clips you guys have been posting. I think they sound great!

I don't know if it was Rip that posted some clips recorded on an iPhone 4 and iRig, so that only added to my frustration and more lost hairs because I can't get it to sound that clean.

The Jam is an interface I've considered, but as I suspected, it has no output so I imagine you have to go through the iPhone's headphone jack? And it's 100 chocolate kisses.

OTOH, the iRiffPort is $60, and has output(s).

Right now I'm between those two. Will pull the plug soon (but first I gotta take care of some minor upgrades on an Ursa 6 I just received. ).

Yea, the PF-350 is a great lil' amp. And to factor Jimmy's influence, when everybody was talking about the PF-500 cutting issues, I noticed that Jimmy had the 350 with two 115 cabs... so that's what I went with (2nd cab will come sometime in 2013) and I couldn't be happier. So, when it comes to things Ampeg, I'd dare say, ask yourself "What would Jimmy do?" and you should be in the ballpark (my apologies to Jimmy for draggin' him here...)

Edited to add: My laptop is next in line for an upgrade. I want to be able to record nicely and create videos too. So I'll meet you guys, don't worry, but I'm moving in "Prieto Time".

Keep in mind, I'm not big into overdriven tones, so my goal right from the start was to get the cleanest sound possible.

Here's a few hints on how I do that.
1) start at the beginning. Set your levels on the setup page. Play HARD and tweak until the signal never goes into the red, but just barely. This is the most important step.

2) use the B15R with the 1x15"B. VERY important. The "B" cab is cleaner.

3) set the B15R for 60 watts. Occasionally I set it for 100watts, but at 60 you get a cleaner sound.

4) don't use the pedals for compression. Use the mastering compressor instead.

Other than that, it's all in the fingers.

Some chorus will help mask any dirt remaining. I typically use the Slash X-Chorus (I actually like it better than my $350 Fishman AFX Chorus, and that thing is awesome!!) and set it for a really wide depth, with an extremely low rate. If you can hear the swirl, it's too much.

There ya go. Give that a shot and you should be able to get a cleaner tone using the Irig interface.

[Rip Topaz]

The lack of headphone out on the Jam bothers me a bit, too. What good is creating an ultra-pristine digital signal if yore gonna have to use an analog output?
If your headphone don't work with the Irig, just run from the Irig to a headphone amp to drive the headphones. I'm using in-war monitor buds so the Irig has no problem driving them.

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

Keep in mind, I'm not big into overdriven tones, so my goal right from the start was to get the cleanest sound possible.

Here's a few hints on how I do that.
1) start at the beginning. Set your levels on the setup page. Play HARD and tweak until the signal never goes into the red, but just barely. This is the most important step.

2) use the B15R with the 1x15"B. VERY important. The "B" cab is cleaner.

3) set the B15R for 60 watts. Occasionally I set it for 100watts, but at 60 you get a cleaner sound.

4) don't use the pedals for compression. Use the mastering compressor instead.

Other than that, it's all in the fingers.

Some chorus will help mask any dirt remaining. I typically use the Slash X-Chorus (I actually like it better than my $350 Fishman AFX Chorus, and that thing is awesome!!) and set it for a really wide depth, with an extremely low rate. If you can hear the swirl, it's too much.

There ya go. Give that a shot and you should be able to get a cleaner tone using the Irig interface.

Thx Rip! I'm going to try these settings. I"m also going to try Duke's going straight to the amp through the Aux.

I had the B15 at 100w, will try 60.

Yes, setting the input gain correctly has been a challenge.

Alrighty folks. I'm going to fool around a bit while I watch Macy's parade with my family.

Everyone have a nice Thanksgiving day and I'll catch up with you guys later on this weekend.

Thank you for being so helpful!

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

The lack of headphone out on the Jam bothers me a bit, too. What good is creating an ultra-pristine digital signal if yore gonna have to use an analog output?
If your headphone don't work with the Irig, just run from the Irig to a headphone amp to drive the headphones. I'm using in-war monitor buds so the Irig has no problem driving them.

One last thing. I can't use in-ears. My hearing aids are there.

I have to use cans, and I need good isolating cans when I play at church. The HD-280s are the best I've found so far.

Finally, my signal chain does not end with the amp/headphones. It ends with the sound curve(s) my audiologist has programmed for me. I go to him and tell him, "I need a flat curve, I need a program w/o compression, I need one with less highs". I have about 5 different programs that I use. I use a remote device to select between programs. The challenge for me is to control the highs. Not enough and I can't hear them... a bit too much and I'll get some weird feedback and/or nasty frequencies in my hearing aids. My kids can't hear them. I bought an Empress ParaEQ and it works good for getting rid of the offending frequency. But I haven't put the pieces together with AT.

It's a lot of trial and error, moving knobs and paying close attention as best as I can to see what the difference is. I used to rely on my son to set my sound, but I've been insisting more and more that this is something I need to be able to figure out myself. I may not be able to fully hear the difference, but at least I need to be able to "sense" the difference. I'm not sure I'm making any sense but that is the best I can do to describe it.

At this moment, I'll take the time to thank God for the hearing I have left, and because I can still somehow enjoy something as beautiful as music.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by PrietoBass

One last thing. I can't use in-ears. My hearing aids are there.

I have to use cans, and I need good isolating cans when I play at church. The HD-280s are the best I've found so far.

Finally, my signal chain does not end with the amp/headphones. It ends with the sound curve(s) my audiologist has programmed for me. I go to him and tell him, "I need a flat curve, I need a program w/o compression, I need one with less highs". I have about 5 different programs that I use. I use a remote device to select between programs. The challenge for me is to control the highs. Not enough and I can't hear them... a bit too much and I'll get some weird feedback and/or nasty frequencies in my hearing aids. My kids can't hear them. I bought an Empress ParaEQ and it works good for getting rid of the offending frequency. But I haven't put the pieces together with AT.

It's a lot of trial and error, moving knobs and paying close attention as best as I can to see what the difference is. I used to rely on my son to set my sound, but I've been insisting more and more that this is something I need to be able to figure out myself. I may not be able to fully hear the difference, but at least I need to be able to "sense" the difference. I'm not sure I'm making any sense but that is the best I can do to describe it.

At this moment, I'll take the time to thank God for the hearing I have left, and because I can still somehow enjoy something as beautiful as music.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Yeah, a decent headphone amp is gonna make ALL the difference to you. Maybe pick up one of the Rolls units, they're pretty cheap and pretty good quality. You can also try Behringer (if you're ok with the brand). They make quite a few.

On the setup page, start by turning the output slider OFF. Focus on the signal going into Irig first. Set it so your signal hits the yellow every time you hit a note, and NEVER hits the red. I usually do this by playing an open A or E, because when you hit them hard they tend to cause the loudest signal.

After you get your input signal situated, THEN do the same thing for the output.

If you set up like this, you can still get a pretty clean tone at 100 watts through the B15R, and a bonus is that you'll get a little hair when you really dig in.

Of course, this is ALL dependent on having the input and output signal tweaked just right.

So many people dismiss Irig as junk, and they never bother to take the in setup. Irig is a very powerful tool, but it is NOT plug-and-play.

[Rip Topaz]

Preitobass,

I also have a remote control device, though not in my ears. Mine is called a Spinal Cord Stimulator, basically a tens unit (like they use for sore muscles) only mine works on nerves instead of muscles, and is hardwired to my spine!! I've got a remote control with four "programs", that changes the electric impulses. Kinda cool technology, but doesn't work for me. The surgery to remove it will be scheduled this coming week.