Ok, kind of a n00bish question (preamps vs. EQ)

bassman1185 · #1 01-30-2008, 10:01 PM

Ok, I'm not new to the bass world. I've been playing for about nine years, and I even worked at a guitar shop for about a year. So it is with some embarrassment that I must ask this rather basic question:

Is there really significant difference between a clean preamp (such as an MXR M-80) and an EQ? I know that there are heavily colored preamps like the SABDDI, but I mean something that is not designed to give any sort of audible distortion.

My reason for asking is that I am considering putting together a church-specific pedalboard, and I was curious if I would really be OK if I were to just pick up an EQ pedal vs. spending the extra money on a "real" preamp. I already have a DI that has been working well for me for a while (Aphex Bass Xciter).

Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

bongomania · #2 01-30-2008, 10:11 PM

The word "preamp" covers a lot of turf. A preamp can be anything from a transparent unity-gain buffer to a tone-shaping, clipping, boosting device with all kinds of output levels. An EQ (99% of the time) contains an amplification (buffering) stage, or even multiple stages.

So really the question is not "preamp or EQ" exactly. You have to figure out things like:

Do I need tone shaping such as EQ or amp modeling or overdrive?
Do I need a mic-level balanced DI output, an instrument-level unbalanced output to feed a stage amp, a line-level balanced output to feed a power amp, or any combination of those things simultaneously?
Do I need a special input level or impedance for my particular instrument or place in the signal chain?
Do I need to be able to stomp different features on and off?
Do I need more than one easy-to-access setting of tone/features?

All of these questions, especially the ones about different outputs at different levels, are what will help you (and us) figure out what you need.

For example, if you need to drive a power amp then most "EQ" pedals will not work.

niftydog · #3 01-30-2008, 10:17 PM

A dedicated tone-shaping tool like a preamp is easier to get good sounds out of, and the settings are easily replicated. It's the old adage - give someone four times as many options as they need and they'll take four times as long to f*#k it up!

...not saying you're an idiot or anything! But, to my mind graphic EQ's are tools to attack very specific needs, and they require some subtle tweaking to get just so. They might be a bit of a hindrance in some circumstances.

bassman1185 · #4 01-30-2008, 10:26 PM

As usual, Bongo, you are a treasure trove of knowledge. I guess I could clarify on a few things.

This would be for use at my church, so I would be running DI 90% of the time.

I actually already HAVE a good DI (Aphex Bass Xciter) that suits my needs and that has been working pretty well for me at church.

At the moment, I have been running my bass through my ME-50B into the Bass Xciter, into the house. This works ok, but it could be better. My problem (and this is probably in large part due to the less than awesome sound system at my church, and the well-meaning but untrained volunteers who run sound) is that my tone is weak and lacks punch and presence. The Bass Xciter helps some with that, but it is still kind of flat sounding.

bongomania · #5 01-30-2008, 11:16 PM

Ah, I think I understand a bit better now. I'm inclined to say let's see what you can remove from the signal path before we go adding anything. Reason being, your bass probably has punch and tone when soloed through a decent amp, right? It should, or something needs to change about the bass or your technique. Assuming the bass and the technique are all good, you've got punch and tone. So where did it go? What component(s) eroded and erased the punch and tone? Process of elimination. If, for example, the volunteers running sound are messing you up, then no preamp or tone-shaper can fix that. Similarly, if the PA at the church really sucks, and that's where your tone got eaten, then it doesn't matter what extra devices you stick in front of it, the PA will still suck all the tone away. It doesn't have to be those two examples, it could be anything in the chain including a bad cable or dodgy plug, or a battery-powered gadget that needs a new battery, etc. Maybe your DI isn't working out for you as well as you think. Etc. If it can be removed or replaced, then you're all golden. If it can't, like the volunteers or the PA, then you'll need to figure out an alternate system of amplification. Bring your own rig.

the low one · #6 01-31-2008, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

Ah, I think I understand a bit better now. I'm inclined to say let's see what you can remove from the signal path before we go adding anything. Reason being, your bass probably has punch and tone when soloed through a decent amp, right? It should, or something needs to change about the bass or your technique. Assuming the bass and the technique are all good, you've got punch and tone. So where did it go? What component(s) eroded and erased the punch and tone? Process of elimination. If, for example, the volunteers running sound are messing you up, then no preamp or tone-shaper can fix that. Similarly, if the PA at the church really sucks, and that's where your tone got eaten, then it doesn't matter what extra devices you stick in front of it, the PA will still suck all the tone away. It doesn't have to be those two examples, it could be anything in the chain including a bad cable or dodgy plug, or a battery-powered gadget that needs a new battery, etc. Maybe your DI isn't working out for you as well as you think. Etc. If it can be removed or replaced, then you're all golden. If it can't, like the volunteers or the PA, then you'll need to figure out an alternate system of amplification. Bring your own rig.

+1
I play in church quite a bit with no back line, I just DI into the PA and have a decent monitor. For all their good meaning I don't trust the volunteer PA guys to give me a good tone, they are just volunteers from within the church after all. I go to the desk before we set up and set all the eq's on my channel flat and use my MXR M80 to get my tone.

Sean S · #7 01-31-2008, 03:19 AM

Maybe suggest to your sound people to let you work your tone at the desk and then have them only set the volume level. Thankfully, when I played in church, both my dad (also a bassist) and my friends dad had competent ears and set things well.

bassman1185 · #8 01-31-2008, 10:05 AM

I couldn't tell you how much I would love to bring my own amp, but that has been poo-pooed by some of the more "senior" members of the church. I used to bring my own amp, but I'm pretty sure that just the fact that I HAD an amp on stage made me too loud for some of the congregation. I could have turned it off and I would have been too loud. Anyway, I'll be practicing for worship on Saturday, so I'll see if I can get something worked out then.

bongomania · #9 01-31-2008, 10:28 AM

Can't you just hide the amp behind some icons or a memorial wreath or something?

bassman1185 · #10 01-31-2008, 10:36 AM

No, my church doesn't have icons or memorial wreaths. Good idea though.

Maybe if I disguised it to look like an organ...

bongomania · #11 01-31-2008, 10:44 AM

Maybe put a couple of pillows on top of it, cover it with a big floral dress, and top it with a big hat with feathers in it. If anyone asks, say she's the new choir director.