Okay..I need some help from effects nerds...

[Mark Latimour]

For some unknown reason I have started to buy effects. I have the following:

OCtavius Squeezer
Fulltone Bassdrive Mosfet (this is going to be sold)
Frantone Bassweet
DHA VT1-EQ Bass Drive (I love this thing!)
EBS Octabass (grey)
EHX Nano DrQ (struggle with this)
EHX Nano Small Stone (I think thats it - its a phaser)
Boomerang Plus Looper
EHX 2880 Looper + footpedal
Line 6 JM4 Looper (great for practice - not a great looper).

I also have on order a Brogdan Polish Love and a Polish Ass (or whatever his new one will be called).

Now, my problem is that I am not sure if I have a bunch of effects that compliment each other, but more concerning is I don't understand how filters and synths work so I am struggling to use the OS (or even to get it set up). I really like the look of the Eventide Pitchfactor, so I think I am going to shift the EBS and put a Pitchfactor in for sure. However, I am also thinking of getting an EHX Bass Micro Synth to "learn" how to use Synth before trying to play with the OS (which is just byond me at the moment). So a couple of questions if you may:

1. Will a Pitchfactor and EHX BMS "play well" together in the sense that the BMS will be giving me something sufficiently different from the Pitchfactor to learn on (I assume the Pitchfactor doesn't have filters etc built in).

2. Is there a better pedal than the BMS to learn how to use basic filters that I could use instead of the BMS with the Pitchfactor - I assume the pitchfactor "synthesises" additional notes, so its really just the wave and filters than is different - or am I mistaken?

3. Do my pedal choices look right? Should I be looking at something different to help me come to grips with expaning my sonic palette. I am not such a big "dirt" fan, I use the light OD from the DHA pedal and the fuzz from the bassweet and with the Bogdan pedals I am not sure I need anything else.

Help me effects nerds....you're my only hope! (pssssssssss and repeat).

PS if any London / UK based users want to come and spend a few hours with me, I would pay for you to come and teach me more about effects and provide beers. Call it an "effects lesson" rather than a bass lesson!

[dannybuoy]

If you want to learn about how synths work, the best option is to get some free VST instruments instead of buying pedals. That way you can learn hands-on for free about LFOs, ADSR controls, subtractive synthesis, HP/BP/LP filters, etc... http://www.kvraudio.com is a great place to get started!

I'm not surprised you're struggling with the Chunk OS though, I have a very good understanding of synths but found that pedal a right pain to program! Hopefully the new Markbass one with it's software patch editor will be better...

[Arthur Strand]

Hi! To save stage and studio floor space, I bought a Yamaha 550 FX unit in the early 1990s. it is superb and has FX for all electric and acoustic instruments and vocals including Bass guitar etc.
It also caters for customized FX sounds for all so you could spend half a lifetime quickly adding 50 micro adjustable sounds for your Bass only.
I have a Rickenbacker Stereo Bass and a fretless self-made bass but plan to add a Fender Squier Affinity Precision Bass and a Danelectro Longhorn bass in the future.
If you are an Australian living in London, I was the bassist on Olivia Newton-John's first hit single, which put Australia on the map, so feel free to email me and see my website mate.
escutcheonrecords@btinternet.com
www.escutcheonmedia.com

[Happynoj]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

2. Is there a better pedal than the BMS to learn how to use basic filters that I could use instead of the BMS with the Pitchfactor?

If I wanted to learn how to use a filter, I would get a proper envelope filter pedal - either something like the EHX Micro Q Tron (easy and simple) or the EHX Q Tron which is more complex than the micro and has more stuff to learn about, but which will ultimately teach you more about filters. I'm not 100% sure whether that would be the best pedal to get though. I'll wait for others to give their opinions.

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

PS if any London / UK based users want to come and spend a few hours with me, I would pay for you to come and teach me more about effects and provide beers. Call it an "effects lesson" rather than a bass lesson!

I could possibly come and give you a hand, because I'm a student with nothing to do. However, it is quite a long way from Leeds to London, and I have no experience with the Octavius Squeezer, so I'm pretty sure that there are people who are better qualified than me to help you. You should ask the same question on www.basschat.co.uk because that is all UK bass players.

[kaputsport]

It sounds like you are a little afraid to try somethings with the OS. Honestly, I would play with it a little, or search for settings. I think there is a thread about it here somewhere...

As for the pedal choices, They sound great. Not entirely my choice, but to each their own. I do want a Frantone Basssweet, as it is my name (Fran). I think throwing caution to the wind would help you along well in this case.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

As for the pedal choices, They sound great. Not entirely my choice, but to each their own. I do want a Frantone Basssweet, as it is my name (Fran). I think throwing caution to the wind would help you along well in this case.

Thanks, I have tried to sit down with the OS and just start coming up with patches, but I have found the interface a little bit difficult to "play" with. That said, I don't have as much time as I would like to just play with the efefcts, which is why I am thinking of getting an effects teacher for a lesson or too. However, I agree that I need to through caution to the wind, just so long as it doens't involve throwing money into the wind along with it!

[cheapbasslovin]

The BMS has a pretty nice filter interface. It's pretty easy to use, but if you want a filter that has a little more control of the parameters and is just a filter, I would suggest an EHX Enigma.

This is a little tricky to get just right, but if it is about learning what works and doesn't, then it might be good for you.

The Dr.Q is going to be really hard to use without a blender as it sucks your low end really bad. If you put your SmallStone before it, it will sound like 'wah wah wah wah' rather than the normal 'swooosh swooosh.' That may be kind of fun.

[fightthepower]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

It sounds like you are a little afraid to try somethings with the OS. Honestly, I would play with it a little, or search for settings. I think there is a thread about it here somewhere...

As for the pedal choices, They sound great. Not entirely my choice, but to each their own. I do want a Frantone Basssweet, as it is my name (Fran). I think throwing caution to the wind would help you along well in this case.

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Thanks, I have tried to sit down with the OS and just start coming up with patches, but I have found the interface a little bit difficult to "play" with. That said, I don't have as much time as I would like to just play with the efefcts, which is why I am thinking of getting an effects teacher for a lesson or too. However, I agree that I need to through caution to the wind, just so long as it doens't involve throwing money into the wind along with it!

The OS is not a pedal that you can 'sit down and play with and search for settings' if you do not have a solid understanding of the basics of synthesis. It is far and away the deepest and most labor intensive analog pedal on the market, and makes the Deep Impact and G5 look like childs toys, for better or worse. Navigating the interface is a daunting task, and if you do not have any hands on experience with synthesis, hardware or software, then it makes it impossible to visualize any of the numerous settings requiring a numerical value of iirc 1-255.

Mark, I think Dannybuoy made a great suggestion in spending a little time with some sort of synth- a free soft synth could certainly get the job done. Doing some reading on synthesis, envelope functions and ADSR, VCO's and LFO's, will also help you to understand the terminology and navigate the OS's menu. I think you also have the right idea in getting some hands on experience with other filters, but in regards to the OS, a real synthesizer or soft synth will teach you much more relevant information. I don't want to be discouraging, but you might just find that the OS just isn't right for you at the time being, and if you can sacrifice the board space (it sounds like you can) you might be better off spending time with some other individual effects that are easier to use, and maybe come back the OS at a later time when you have a better understanding of effects and synthesis, and so you can enjoy the bit of time that you do have to spend with effects (not blindly battling the OS's interface..). If I had the OS now, Im confident that I could make settings with it in a relatively reasonable amount of time, but it was just too much for me when I was new to effects, and I had already been through many of the digital synths and individual analog effects (and had effects that sounded great and had instant-gratification-knobs..)

[Mark Latimour]

Thanks for the useful help so far. I am right in thinking:

Enigma Qballs = just a filter (with a distortion circuit)

BassMicrosyth = syth with a filter

Pitchfactor = synth (but with no sqaure wave generator) + other pitch and delay effects

[kevteop]

The BMS is an analogue octaver, plus an octave up distortion, plus the "Square Wave" voice which to me sounds like it's based on the Big Muff fuzz (it definitely isn't a square wave anyway, it's just a distortion). Plus an attack delay, plus a low-pass filter.

The Pitchfactor is a digital harmoniser and delay.

The two are completely different.

I don't think the BMS will help you understand your O.S. but it is a great pedal in its own right.

As for the O.S. - it takes a bit of time to get used to, and if you don't have time to sit down and read through the manual (which is excellent by the way) with the pedal in front of you then you'll struggle to get familiar with it.

That said, once you get your head around what the VCO, VCA and VCF actually are and what they do, and how the different mixer options work together (particularly whether you're mixing in a signal post- or pre-filter), it's plain sailing from there.

If you do have any specific questions about something you're trying to achieve on the O.S. ask away - there's a few of us here who've spent quite a bit of time tweaking it and I'm sure we could help.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Thanks for the useful help so far. I am right in thinking:

Enigma Qballs = just a filter (with a distortion circuit)

Yes,...it's a Bassballs on steroids

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

BassMicrosyth = Fuzz with a filter

and octaver. The Digitech Bass Synth Wah is setup in a simpler (and cheaper) fashion.

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Pitchfactor = synth (but with no sqaure wave generator) + other pitch and delay effects

Not so much synth,...just a pedal with multiple pitch shifting effects. Sort of like the Line 6 **-4 series of pedals. I'm not sure if it is digital or analog.

I'm not a big synth nerd,...I love the sound of moogs and own a microKORG, but how they work???? With that said here is my 2 cents.

Most "synth" pedals aren't really synths. I could be wrong on the OS, but with pedals like the BMS it's really just an attempt to simulate a square wave or ramp wave synth sound.

A lot of bassists who want a "synth facimile" will start out with a good sounding fuzz pedal an octave pedal that can give you that analog completely wet octave down sound (I like my OC-2 for this) and an envelope filter. I like this approach because you can use all three pedals on their own and that completely wet octave down sound is a classic sort of organy,...synthy tone you might hear on electronica and D'n'B stuff (think 808 drops, but can be used melodically instead of just for percussion).

I use a setup like that and get a pretty convincing synth tone. Sounds a bit like the "bass" line on Radiohead's All I Need from their In Rainbows release.

PS. If you don't want to throw you money into the wind,...don't go here

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

Most "synth" pedals aren't really synths. I could be wrong on the OS, but with pedals like the BMS it's really just an attempt to simulate a square wave or ramp wave synth sound.

Yeah the O.S. genuinely is an analogue synth - it has a voltage-controlled oscillator, amplifier and filter. Plus a distortion circuit, LFO, and sample + hold.

It's a pretty amazing little box really. I just wish they'd sort out the tracking on the VCO, but there's been no firmware updates for the best part of a year now.

[Mark Latimour]

So when alls said in done, I think I should get the Pitchfactor and a Enigma Q Balls and run the Pitchfactor into a fuzz and then the output in the Q Balls. Then Go on line and start playing with some free software to get a handle on Synths (in particular VCO, VCA and VCA). Hmm....this effects thing is quite the passtime! I guess that means that on the out will be:

Fulltone Bassdrive
EBS Octabass
JM4 Looper
Dr Q

as they see a little bit reundant.

Do I need a flanger?

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by kevteop

Yeah the O.S. genuinely is an analogue synth - it has a voltage-controlled oscillator, amplifier and filter. Plus a distortion circuit, LFO, and sample + hold.

That's what I thought,...doesn't it also have some fuzzes built into it a'la Brown Dog?

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

So when alls said in done, I think I should get the Pitchfactor and a Enigma Q Balls and run the Pitchfactor into a fuzz and then the output in the Q Balls.

That would probably work really well with the Pitchfactor as you octaver and whatever else it can do.

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Then Go on line and start playing with some free software to get a handle on Synths (in particular VCO, VCA and VCA). Hmm....this effects thing is quite the passtime!

Welcome to your new addiction.

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

I guess that means that on the out will be:

Fulltone Bassdrive
EBS Octabass
JM4 Looper
Dr Q

as they see a little bit reundant.

No shame in having a dedicated octaver and distortion/OD. The EBS may be voiced a little differently than what a Pitcfactor can do. Compare the two side by side and see whether it merits having both on your board.

You already have two really good loopers,...I'd part with the JM-4.

There are a lot of better envelope filters out there than the Dr. Q. If you haven't already; take a look at the 3Leaf Audio Groove Regulator, made by TBer Spencer. It's based on the hard to find (read expensive) Lovetone Meatball but with a much simpler control layout. There is no distortion like the Enigma,...but it has an FX loop that you can plug a distortion or fuzz into. Add octave (or the Pitchfactor) and you've got the recipe for facsimiled synth.

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Do I need a flanger?

YES!!, Remember that effects are an addiction and need overrides want. I want to spend more than $900 on a car, but all this saving is cutting into my need to buy more effects.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

There are a lot of better envelope filters out there than the Dr. Q. If you haven't already; take a look at the 3Leaf Audio Groove Regulator, made by TBer Spencer. It's based on the hard to find (read expensive) Lovetone Meatball but with a much simpler control layout. There is no distortion like the Enigma,...but it has an FX loop that you can plug a distortion or fuzz into. Add octave (or the Pitchfactor) and you've got the recipe for facsimiled synth.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused now, I assumed that the Enigma Q Balls was a Envelope FIlter (ie would replace the Dr Q). Is the 3 Leafaudio model a better choice or just a different option than the Enigma, or is just better than the Dr Q (which is cool, but seems quite limited).

[JMDT]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

So when alls said in done, I think I should get the Pitchfactor and a Enigma Q Balls and run the Pitchfactor into a fuzz and then the output in the Q Balls. Then Go on line and start playing with some free software to get a handle on Synths (in particular VCO, VCA and VCA). Hmm....this effects thing is quite the passtime! I guess that means that on the out will be:

Fulltone Bassdrive
EBS Octabass
JM4 Looper
Dr Q

as they see a little bit reundant.

Do I need a flanger?

Some fuzz's will sound much better than others here. A ZVex Woolly Mammoth is the standard fuzz for this, but it is very expensive. I'm currently having a clone built for this exact purpose. Other fuzzes will work, but the important thing is to find one that is gated and/or has a synthy character. Other candidates are the Devi Ever Bass Fuzz (Supermassive black hole), Chunk systems brown dog, or the Malekko B:assmaster.

I am a huge fan of the pitchfactor; I am ordering one soon. If you blan on using it as the basis of a synth tone you will be seriously dissapointed. It does a million things great, like the crystal mode, whammy effects, multi part harmonies, chorus effect, arpeggiator. However, its octave is not the right tool for a synth sound. Its a digital octaver and you really want an analog ovtaver. The Boss OC-2 is really the first and last place to look for this sound. Don't let me disuade you from the pitchfactor because it is a box of coolness, but it is not the right tool for a synth setup as an octaver.

The Q balls is ok. I tinkered with it and it is a synthy filter, but if you want the authentic synth sound, look at a Moog filter.

As to a flanger, the Boss BF-3 is one of my favorite pedals. Many don't like flangers around here, but I find a number of uses for one. If you are into covers, you will never need a flanger, but if you like experimenting like me they are a great tool. Since you have a phaser already a chorus may give you a hair more versatility, but the pitchfactor already has a chorus if you go that route.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Sorry, I'm a bit confused now, I assumed that the Enigma Q Balls was a Envelope FIlter (ie would replace the Dr Q). Is the 3 Leafaudio model a better choice or just a different option than the Enigma, or is just better than the Dr Q (which is cool, but seems quite limited).

Sorry,

Better than the Dr. Q (It is limited which is why I've never considered it) and a different option to the Enigma.

I dig the 3leaf mainly because it is designed by a bassist for bassists and it's based on the Meatball. After I buy car that will survive Spokane winters the 3Leaf is next on my list.

[JMDT]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

Sorry,

Better than the Dr. Q (It is limited which is why I've never considered it) and a different option to the Enigma.

I dig the 3leaf mainly because it is designed by a bassist for bassists and it's based on the Meatball. After I buy car that will survive Spokane winters the 3Leaf is next on my list.

Yeah the 3Leaf really sounds that good. No volume spikes is a huge plus too.

[whoapower]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

YES!!, Remember that effects are an addiction and need overrides want. I want to spend more than $900 on a car, but all this saving is cutting into my need to buy more effects.

+1

Good advice here.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by JMDT

Some fuzz's will sound much better than others here. A ZVex Woolly Mammoth is the standard fuzz for this, but it is very expensive. I'm currently having a clone built for this exact purpose. Other fuzzes will work, but the important thing is to find one that is gated and/or has a synthy character. Other candidates are the Devi Ever Bass Fuzz (Supermassive black hole), Chunk systems brown dog, or the Malekko B:assmaster.

It is worth mentioning; considering Latimour's stable of active basses, that the Zvex Woolly Mammoth,...while a great sounding gated fuzz,...is not active friendly. It will work, but I may sound like poo.

Of the other ones mentioned,...I think the Brown Dog and the Assmaster are active friendly (I'm not sure about Devi's pedal).

One other candidate would be the OLC Chunky Cheese,...a pedal that occupies the second spot on my list right behind the Groove Regulator.

This may be starting to make you head spin a little Mark, but just be sure that the fuzz you plan on getting is active friendly. Gated is more desireable but I use a Muff variant and while it isn't gated at all, I still get a pretty usable synthy tone out of it; combined with octave and a simple DOD 440 clone (Tonefactor 442 red Analogue Filter, a very thick sounding but subtle filter and one I consider to be better than the Dr. Q).

IMO; for a synthy tone; which you would normally rely on a keyboard with Oscillators to acheive, the idea is to take all the nuance,...fret noise,...string buzz,...etc out of your tone and replace it with a completely non-human tone. The first step in this is the octave pedal and is something that the OC-2 excels at. I thought the Pitchfactor may be good for this, but I stand corrected (I didn't consider analog vs digital).

After you get your octaver sorted out,...then you can start adding the layers of fuzz and filter.