Opti-Fet, Empress, or Phat Beam?

[swartzfeger]

Bear with me gang, I think I just read thru 50+ pages on compressors here and I still have questions.

To back up a bit: I'm looking for a compressor for recording. I rarely play out, so live considerations are moot.

I identified 2 main things in my chain to improve my tracking: audio interface and a compressor. I've got other things that'll come later like a Para Driver DI etc etc, but for now I've settled on an Apogee Duet 2 interface and looking into a quality compressor.

At first the M87 seemed to be exactly what I wanted/needed based on countless threads here, the M87 demos I heard and MXR's rep. Virtually silent, tonally neutral, quality compression, sign me up.

Then I got to reading Bongo's compressor reviews (big mistake... heh, kidding!) Now I'm questioning do I really want a 'tone neutral' compressor, and maybe this side chain might be something cool.

For starters -- my main bass lately has overwhelmingly been my EBMM Bongo 5 fretless HHP. Love this thing. The only nit, and it's minor, is the same thing I have with a lot of active basses vs. my Jazz -- it's just missing 'something', bland may be too strong a word. Having a compressor that can 'color' sounds intriguing.

So I've relegated the M87 to a close 4th place with the Opti-Fet, Empress and Phat Beam on my main radar. A lot of questions though --

Opti-Fet: rave reviews. Sounds like what I want. One pretty good demo from Burgerman on youtube but nothing else. FEA Labs' site? Nothing. Hesitant to drop that kind of money with limited audio demos.

Empress: mostly same as above. Heard great guitar demos but nothing with bass. Not a lot of owner reviews either (Bongo's nice review aside).

Phat Beam: new kid on the block. First, I like the demos I've heard. REALLY like them. Just wish they were accompanied by a video. On the other hand, the fact that it's non traditional leaves me a little leery... still, the sounds I heard were pretty cool.

One thing I've read over and over in lots of various compressor reviews (particularly from Bongo) is the repeating refrain 'but if you're looking for one of those warm and syrupy compressors, look elsewhere.'

Not quite sure what that means, but you know... if I wanted a solid compressor I could take home to mom, I'd buy an M87. but I am looking for something a little unique. While I wouldn't mind a straight compressor most of the time, dialing in a Levin-esque slinky phat vibe for my fretless would be very, very cool. Is that what's meant by the 'warm and syrupy' descriptor?

So I'm on the fence. The Opti-Fet is highly-regarded, short on demos, and probably out of stock for some time. The Empress sounds like a nice piece, not a lot of demos or users (am I missing the Empress fanboys here?). The Phat Beam... well, it's really tempting. The lack of LEDs kind of irks me, the non-traditional approach kinda bugs me, but the sound... I guess that's all that matters. The thing sounds really good, and the 'always on' compressor with lots of smooth sustain sounds like it might be a perfect match for a fretless. And I'm assuming with the blend I can always dial out the more extreme stuff if I want to go with a straight up compressed tone, right?

Just one side note -- I read up a lot on the Markbass Compressore, and, no offense to the company or fans of the pedal -- didn't like at all. All based on MP3 demos, of course, so I've gotta take my impressions with a grain of salt. Surprised by this, as I'm a fan of their amps and went into my compressor investigation really expecting this pedal to come out on top.

Thanks in advance!

[sonic assassin]

you want a hardware compressor pedal for recording?

im a studio sort of guy, so this strikes me as a little odd. im a fan of in-the-box post tracking compressor plug ins that i will use when mixing. flexibility is key here. otherwise, id look into a nice rackmount unit that is studio tested and approved. i have a hard time with the idea that most stomp box compressors will be worth your time when recording. something like an RNC or RNLA, dbx160a, etc would be a cheap and very usable option.

with that said, i know very little about stomp box compressors. i use overdrive to achieve similar results and large amounts of tone coloration. if i was to use compression in a live setting, it would be something high end like a distressor, or trust that a tube amp would put some hair on it.

as far as your signal chain, apogee units are incredible. good converters, good sound all around. im not familiar with the exact one and whether or not it has a DI/instrument input. if it doesnt, i would be looking for a DI box.

what DAW are you using? there is likely a cheaper solution either built in or floating around free on the internet.

[swartzfeger]

I dig what you're saying 100% on ITB post-compression but for a few things -- I'm looking for a compressor that can almost be used as a musical effect as much as one for general recording, ie, when I'm not plugged into my Macbook Pro and into my amp, it'd be nice to have a box to plug into.

Plus, I'm not crazy with any of Logic's compressor's for bass. And while there are quality plugs out there, by the time I plunk down $ for an AU I'd rather have hardware.

I guess where I break away from the norm is that while I can see the benefit/common sense of tracking a completely dry signal, recording a wet track doesn't freak me out like it does some folks.

I will look into the racks you recommended... portability is a big thing for me (i record solely on my MBP and iPad), but the flexibility later on could be useful. The thing with a pedal is finding something close to studio quality at a smaller price and size. Something like the Opti-fet at $249 seems to fit the bill vs a $500 DBX but I'm still open to options!

[swartzfeger]

Just for fodder, the RNC and RNLA were not reviewed well at all by Bongo @ http://www.ovnilab.com/reviews/

I'm still going to move forward with the (possibly naive?) notion that higher end stomps like the FEA, Empress, and Daring Audio should be more than fine for home recording.

Maybe I should just take the recording thing out of the equation -- my tone wish list from the first post still pretty much stand.

Also, I rarely pop/slap, if ever (not sure if that's relevant).

[EscapeNote]

Sonic Assasin, I see you recommended the RNC. It's a great little compressor - I have one - but it doesn't handle bass very well, distorts (at least that's been the case with my basses). Beautiful on guitars though, and that's why I keep mine and what I use it for.

I've tended to share the same point of view about rack comps vs pedal comps. I have a Pendulum OCL-2 in my studio rack; it's a permanent part of my bass recording chain. But this last year I got ahold of the FEA Labs Dual Band Optical Comp and it changed my mind about being able to get quality compression in a small pedal format. I've been using the FEA live and in studio for several months, really like it. Haven't heard the OptiFet yet, but I imagine it is very good, hope to try one out myself before too long...

That Apogee sounds like a great way to go.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by swartzfeger

I dig what you're saying 100% on ITB post-compression but for a few things -- I'm looking for a compressor that can almost be used as a musical effect as much as one for general recording, ie, when I'm not plugged into my Macbook Pro and into my amp, it'd be nice to have a box to plug into.

Plus, I'm not crazy with any of Logic's compressor's for bass. And while there are quality plugs out there, by the time I plunk down $ for an AU I'd rather have hardware.

I guess where I break away from the norm is that while I can see the benefit/common sense of tracking a completely dry signal, recording a wet track doesn't freak me out like it does some folks.

I will look into the racks you recommended... portability is a big thing for me (i record solely on my MBP and iPad), but the flexibility later on could be useful. The thing with a pedal is finding something close to studio quality at a smaller price and size. Something like the Opti-fet at $249 seems to fit the bill vs a $500 DBX but I'm still open to options!

logics compressor is pretty powerful. lots of options there. i like to set it to FET (1176 peak limiter type), crush it to death. leave just a little attack when needed. open up the little sub menu and set the output distortion to either hard or clip. this is a similar effect to the distressor.

of course, thats for really crunchy bass. the OPTO (la-2a) setting can work fairly well too. i always run the amp sim, then compress, then EQ. gate first if needed. make an aux and send it to the clip distortion. set the mix to 100% wet and tinker from there. sounds a lot like a BDDI.

i dont worry about recording with effects since i have my own little studio, but i know what i like, and i like what i get in logic. id hate to have to re-track everything 15 times to get the effect right.

but it seems like you want subtle compression that is more of a color thing. reaaaally not my strong suit, as i just bury everything in overdrive with the mids way to high.

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by EscapeNote

Sonic Assasin, I see you recommended the RNC. It's a great little compressor - I have one - but it doesn't handle bass very well, distorts (at least that's been the case with my basses). Beautiful on guitars though, and that's why I keep mine and what I use it for.

I've tended to share the same point of view about rack comps vs pedal comps. I have a Pendulum OCL-2 in my studio rack; it's a permanent part of my bass recording chain. But this last year I got ahold of the FEA Labs Dual Band Optical Comp and it changed my mind about being able to get quality compression in a small pedal format. I've been using the FEA live and in studio for several months, really like it. Haven't heard the OptiFet yet, but I imagine it is very good, hope to try one out myself before too long...

That Apogee sounds like a great way to go.

ive not used either one for anything, ive just heard rave reviews. not about bass exactly, but ill keep that in mind. i used a distressor once and ive been hooked ever since.

in my present situation, id never need a compressor pedal, but its good to know that they are finally stepping their game up a bit. the day i play clean bass that i have to smoosh is the day i put my bass down.

and god bless apogee products. way better than my converters for sure.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

you want a hardware compressor pedal for recording?

im a studio sort of guy, so this strikes me as a little odd. im a fan of in-the-box post tracking compressor plug ins that i will use when mixing. flexibility is key here. otherwise, id look into a nice rackmount unit that is studio tested and approved. i have a hard time with the idea that most stomp box compressors will be worth your time when recording. something like an RNC or RNLA, dbx160a, etc would be a cheap and very usable option.

with that said, i know very little about stomp box compressors. i use overdrive to achieve similar results and large amounts of tone coloration. if i was to use compression in a live setting, it would be something high end like a distressor, or trust that a tube amp would put some hair on it.

as far as your signal chain, apogee units are incredible. good converters, good sound all around. im not familiar with the exact one and whether or not it has a DI/instrument input. if it doesnt, i would be looking for a DI box.

what DAW are you using? there is likely a cheaper solution either built in or floating around free on the internet.

I agree with most as what was said here. A pedal compressor are better for a live situation than in the studio.
Live you are fighting amps and drums bleeding into vocal mic's, Room Echo, sound-men, 5 minute drum checks, etc etc. Its almost safe to say a LA2A would not make a major difference, or any difference than a MXR compressor in a live situation ( depending on the difference of the room, stage volume and the capabilities of your sound engineer). You will not get the full benefit of a studio compressor live but recording and mixing yes. I would go for the more proven studio compressors and software than what was originally made for live performances.

[swartzfeger]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

logics compressor is pretty powerful. lots of options there. i like to set it to FET (1176 peak limiter type), crush it to death. leave just a little attack when needed. open up the little sub menu and set the output distortion to either hard or clip. this is a similar effect to the distressor.

of course, thats for really crunchy bass. the OPTO (la-2a) setting can work fairly well too. i always run the amp sim, then compress, then EQ. gate first if needed. make an aux and send it to the clip distortion. set the mix to 100% wet and tinker from there. sounds a lot like a BDDI.

i dont worry about recording with effects since i have my own little studio, but i know what i like, and i like what i get in logic. id hate to have to re-track everything 15 times to get the effect right.

I think one of the reasons I've avoided the plugins is because my MBP is already loaded/stressed with VIs like Omnisphere, Trillian, Kontakt, Absynth and a host of others. I don't usually run a high track count but the things I run can be machine hogs.

Call me a masochist (or a bassist), but I love playing and recording, so re-tracking doesn't bother me. I think fretless and my 11 string Warr have inured me to the reality there's never a perfect take! :P

Maybe I just like twiddling knobs in real time? As much as I love Logic, I still have these weird carryovers from the 80s as a teen.

[sonic assassin]

a thought occurs!



perhaps a really colorful preamp is in order?

back in college a buddy of mine had a really sweet tube preamp (TL Audio) that put a certain color on everything we put through it. really sweet for snare drums, vocals and bass. maybe your apogee is too clean and you need to color it up a bit that way.

[swartzfeger]

Let me steer this back on topic -- I'm asking about bass compressors. (no snark intended!)

I mostly know tubes, I mostly know preamps. Have access to a Tech 21 RPM and will probably buy a Tech 21 Para Driver soon. I already own a BDDI clone. I don't know compressors (or specifically, what type of compressor I need for the vibe I'm looking for).

Your earlier suggestion of overdrive or tube for color is definitely not something I'm looking for -- not looking for wool. I'm looking for a compressor.

*Taking the recording etc out of the equation* -- does anyone have any thoughts on the Opti-Fet, Empress and Phat Beam? I'm not finding a lot of useful demos and comparisons online.

edit -- and my previous use of color was probably inapt. I was meaning color in the sense that some compressors are neutral and some are colored or less transparent... much like preamps, but adding a different kind of color. It was probably a misguided comparison on my part. Mea culpa.

[caeman]

Let me give a hint as to how popular the FEA compressors are on this forum...when one appears for sale, it is sold in less than a day. Sometimes, less than an hour. I think the record is within 5 minutes of posting.

They are dead quiet and work. There is a great lacking of videos and sound samples, yes. But, you cannot really go wrong with the FEA stuff.