Orbit Inspired Peadal Idea (Who wants to built it?)

[rnilson]

Ok from what I understand of the Orbit it produces two tones:
1.) Input freq through a gated fuzz circut
2.) VCO Freq
As the note is held or decays they both are modulated away from the center freq by the amount of the diffrence of the two freqs (subtractive modulation). Is this correct?

So what I would like to have is a pedal that has a VCO that modulates the clean input tone constantly by the subtracive amount away from the original freq. I want the VCO freq to be controled by CV input. That way I can feed the VCO a Saw/Square/Ramp waves and have it take on that charactistic. I would think then the subtractive output would also sound like the wave of the VCO modulating it.
I think this might be a way to produce waveforms with out the tracking issues.
Is this faulty logic????? Am I misunderstanding/missing something.
Someone with tech knowledge shoot me down.
Autopilot???

[bongomania]

The one part that doesn't seem to make sense (if I'm reading you right) is the bit about feeding a VCO a type of wave and having it "take on" or "sound like" that wave, and the modulated output also sounding like that wave.

A VCO produces a waveform. Sending another waveform as a control voltage into it changes the pitch of the first VCO, not its wave shape per se. Subtractive output taken from that would almost certainly sound completely atonal.

If I've misunderstood your idea, let me know.

[rnilson]

Originally Posted by bongomania

A VCO produces a waveform. Sending another waveform as a control voltage into it changes the pitch of the first VCO, not its wave shape per se. Subtractive output taken from that would almost certainly sound completely atonal.

Right, so as the hz of the vco rises and falls wouldn't the diffrence of the of the subtractive amount also rise and fall along with it?
So because the modulating amount is rising an falling wouldn't the pitch of the input be constantly pushed a diffrent amount way from its origianal resting point in a pattern the shape of the wave form moving the picth moving the VCO?

(My plan here assumes that there is no real noticeable lag between input and subtractive output or modulation of the source. (I don't know if there is or not.) It also would take constant output of the new diffrence of the two signals. I don't know if the orbit does any of this.

It all sounded so pretty in my head. Now I am not so sure.

[autopilot]

here's how it works, your clean signal is transformed into a raw square wave, that drives a vco, the center freq of the vco is set by the user, but when there's an input the center point will drift up and downwards a bit creating some modulation (since the change in the center point is directly proportional by the frequency at the input, that's why is frequency modulation). Here's a trick when you play your bass, the strings vibrate, if yo look close you'll that some notes make the strings vibrate more than others even when they are next to each other, in the orbit on some notes you'll have that modulates more wild.

I think what you're wanting is waveshaper, for example you're feeding a saw wave at cv to control the center freq, but you want that the output of the pedal also has the same shape (in this case saw) of the controlling signal. I can think of 2 scenarios, a) the output will be more saw-ish (wave shaping).

b- the putput will be rising sound (kinda like a inverted swell, the volume is rising proportional to the frequency of the saw that's controlling). In other words is like having a VCA wired to the CV control to sync.

The 1st scenario is a little complex cause you'll have some issues with the playing, because there'll be some intermodulation due the freq of the instrument will not always match to the freq of the cv, and the perceived output will not be very predictable unless you play in a key proportional to the frequency of the wave (and i assume the wave will run lower than the instrument). An fix to this is that you could multiply the cv control wave to match the instrument signal, but this could cause some delay glitches on the tracking and the output will be more unpredictable and not always both signals will match.

I think scenario is b is the best, more if your cv control can give you different output voltages sync it to a main one (like divide the main /2, /4), cause you could hook one to the cv for the center point, other to a vca, other to a filter and ideally a fx loop or delay. The sound will be more close to what you're after and wont have some of the issues you'll be experimenting in scenario a.

Hope this helps

[autopilot]

you just got me thinking, another solution is to divide the output of the pedal and then turn it into a waveshape and use it as CV for a filter after it, it wont be directly sync it to the cv control but since the cv control is modulating the center point you'll have the wave'd output directly proportional to the input and semi-sync to the main control.

[rnilson]

Originally Posted by autopilot

here's how it works, your clean signal is transformed into a raw square wave, that drives a vco, the center freq of the vco is set by the user, but when there's an input the center point will drift up and downwards a bit creating some modulation (since the change in the center point is directly proportional by the frequency at the input, that's why is frequency modulation). Here's a trick when you play your bass, the strings vibrate, if yo look close you'll that some notes make the strings vibrate more than others even when they are next to each other, in the orbit on some notes you'll have that modulates more wild.

I think what you're wanting is waveshaper, for example you're feeding a saw wave at cv to control the center freq, but you want that the output of the pedal also has the same shape (in this case saw) of the controlling signal. I can think of 2 scenarios, a) the output will be more saw-ish (wave shaping).

b- the putput will be rising sound (kinda like a inverted swell, the volume is rising proportional to the frequency of the saw that's controlling). In other words is like having a VCA wired to the CV control to sync.

The 1st scenario is a little complex cause you'll have some issues with the playing, because there'll be some intermodulation due the freq of the instrument will not always match to the freq of the cv, and the perceived output will not be very predictable unless you play in a key proportional to the frequency of the wave (and i assume the wave will run lower than the instrument). An fix to this is that you could multiply the cv control wave to match the instrument signal, but this could cause some delay glitches on the tracking and the output will be more unpredictable and not always both signals will match.

I think scenario is b is the best, more if your cv control can give you different output voltages sync it to a main one (like divide the main /2, /4), cause you could hook one to the cv for the center point, other to a vca, other to a filter and ideally a fx loop or delay. The sound will be more close to what you're after and wont have some of the issues you'll be experimenting in scenario a.

Hope this helps

Oh God! I was way off. Thanks for the lesson. I think I will leave the pedal ideas to the professionals and just worry about playing them.

Now back to finding that wave shaper with no tracking issues.

[autopilot]

scenario b or scenario c, are 2 close options (i'm sure there could be a couple more) in the analog world.