Overdrive/EQ predicament - suggestions needed.

rratajski · #1 10-25-2009, 09:05 AM

Here's my set up:
4003 Ric -> tuner -> HOG -> Blender w/ GGG-tuned BMP in loop -> Semaphore -> SVT-4Pro -> Emperor 2x12 1x15.

I am absolutely in love w/ my clean tone. It's dark, full of mids, articulate (think Deftones).
I am absolutely in love w/ my blended clean w/ my GGG-tuned BMP. It slays, punches through the mix, dirt is heard.

My band is heavy with a capital H w/ high gain g****rs (http://www.myspace.com/cavaleband).

I have been through the RAT 3x, different muffs (the GGG blew every one away), the SFT, Blue Berry, etc. Distortion disappeared in the mix or lost flavor when blended. The ODs cut my precious mids (SFT) or took away articulation and the fullness of my EQ (BBBOD).

I don't want to boost my signal (IE make it any louder). I like playing at a consistent level. I want to basically break up my clean tone a bit and give it some dirt, but keep the volume level the same. What do I need to do this?

RickenBoogie · #2 10-25-2009, 09:16 AM

You almost have to boost the volume when you add dirt, since the distortion/overdrive/whatever, sort of eats up some of your "percieved" loudness. It doesn't need to be a blow-out, but does need to go slightly above unity, in order to cut through the same as without.

dannybuoy · #3 10-25-2009, 02:35 PM

It depends on how you're playing - you can set up an overdrive to be unity gain when digging in hard, but it will be louder than bypass when playing softly at the same settings kind of like a compressor.

If you want a real flat natural sounding OD, have you tried the Barber LTD SR? For live use, the slight mid hump of a tubescreamer based pedal like a modded Bad Monkey or BB Preamp really helps you be heard in a mix without noticeably raising the volume level.

nad · #4 10-25-2009, 02:40 PM

Sounds like you want something clear and low gain. Dredge-Tone Angler, Barber LTD (have not used this one, basing it on samples), and maybe a Fulltone Bass-Drive with the FM setting.

fightthepower · #5 10-26-2009, 03:05 AM

No personal experience behind this suggestion, but the Holy Fire sounds like it might fit the bill.

rratajski · #6 10-26-2009, 04:31 AM

Thank you for the suggestions, gentlemen.

theunknowndude · #7 10-26-2009, 04:55 AM

you may not like my suggestion,... but have you tried the ibanez PD7? the overdrive mode is all I use,... with it on theres a definite added lows that makes me cut through my guitars, RAT, fuzzes etc, they just get eaten up by my guitarists,...

it 'roughs the edges' and boosts your sound (tweakable if you want it ever so slightly) but it is perfect to cut through my guitar heavy mix...

bigchiefbc · #8 10-26-2009, 06:51 AM

I am also going to go ahead and pimp DHA. A VT1 set pretty low-gain, with the bright switch flipped, will give you a great, articulate break-up.

dannybuoy · #9 10-26-2009, 07:15 AM

+1. I may have to pick up another at some point!

rratajski · #10 10-26-2009, 07:15 AM

Will the DHA sap my tone at all? I really want to keep my lows, mids punch, and articulate treble where they are.

EDIT: I just read up on it on the DHA page. 12V 1200mA (or 9V 500mA) deters me a bit...and the $260 USD price tag...although if it's a holy grail of tone, it would be worth it.

megadan · #11 10-26-2009, 07:24 AM

I'm going to throw the Red Llama/Polish Love/Tube Sounds Fuzz out there, it's the only overdrive I've used that retains all the nuance and clarity of the original signal. Some OD's go on and it's like you threw a blanket over your signal - noise, no dynamics, muddyness or low end loss, no original tone.

rratajski · #12 10-26-2009, 07:36 AM

I read that Bongo upped the caps in his red llama clone to allow more bass through. Bongo? Calling Bongo!

RCCollins · #13 10-26-2009, 07:43 AM

if the SFT cut your mids, you weren't EQing it right. roll off lows and highs for a mid boost

Mattsochistic · #14 10-26-2009, 07:52 AM

SWR Interstellar Overdrive. It works the best for me. IMO

jgroh · #15 10-26-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

I am also going to go ahead and pimp DHA. A VT1 set pretty low-gain, with the bright switch flipped, will give you a great, articulate break-up.

+1 I have the VT1-MK3 and it does what you are looking for. Nice od without killing your tone. It even has a boost built in so its like 2 pedals in one. But yes, it doesnt run on batteries (but for me that doesnt matter too much)

I was going to buy a Holy Fire before getting a great deal on the DHA. That might work well too (although another wal wart power)

Smurf-o-Deth · #16 10-26-2009, 08:08 AM

The DHA is a little cumbersome, both in size and power requirement, but it is worth it for the sound--the only reason I didn't keep mine is because I don't use overdrive. It retains your tone and definition, it just greases it up.

rratajski · #17 10-26-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCCollins

if the SFT cut your mids, you weren't EQing it right. roll off lows and highs for a mid boost

Been there, done that. Rolling off the treble muddied me up and lost articulation. Rolling off the lows pulled the bottom right out of the mix. I need all the sonic space I can get in my band

.

RCCollins · #18 10-26-2009, 09:35 AM

i'd recommend the Xotic BB, but the tone stack is almost identical to the SFT's. Barber LTD COULD do the trick as a low gain OD, but I've tried various versions and didn't like any of the tone controls

you really can't get the breakup you want on the amp end?

rratajski · #19 10-26-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCCollins

you really can't get the breakup you want on the amp end?

Popping the gain any higher than I have it (gain currently at noon) clips it fast and lights up the limiter!

I only get a little grit if I hit hard.

scotch · #20 10-26-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

You almost have to boost the volume when you add dirt, since the distortion/overdrive/whatever, sort of eats up some of your "percieved" loudness. It doesn't need to be a blow-out, but does need to go slightly above unity, in order to cut through the same as without.

I totally agree! There's this weird bassist mentality where they want to kick in some overdrive (presumably to match well with whatever dynamic/musical thing is happening in the context of the music being played), but insist on maintaining unity volume. I don't understand this in a live performance. If you want to rock a little more, you get a little louder. Guitarists have known this for decades. Of course, this is just 1 part of the equation! Eq, compression and even technique all come into play.

Trying to achieve unity volume whilst adding the extra harmonic content and inherent clipping action of overdrive/distortion/fuzz is very tricky! I've been working with this for years as a studio session bassist. One of my biggest challenges has been setting up a discreet, footswitchable dirty tone that still sits right with my 'clean' sound while tracking. Running separate clean di/ dirty amp works great- of course! But, a dual setup is not always practical these days due to lower budgets, etc...

For both my live & studio/direct setups I've settled on a combination of my EBS Valve Drive (for just a hint of hair & warmth) and an Xotic BB (for more aggressive dirt). The only change I make is turning the BB's volume up for live scenarios. I've found that the Xotic is really well suited for balancing eq and distortion. Of course, I like the tubescreamer type tone! If tubescreamer isn't your flavor, you'll have to keep searching!