Overdrive working as compressor? (setting attack time)

heavyfunkmachin · #1 03-30-2011, 02:50 AM

Hello,

I was listening to some of my favorite bass tones and trying to figure out what was missing in my tone… valve mixing desks rounds, whatever… so, anyway, I started to think about how compression/limiting and overdrive/distortion are “related” and I wonder something:
Just as you expect an attack and release time in a compressor… shouldn’t an overdrive have the same kind of controls?

I’m really interested in the attack time, my favourite overdrive are mild-valve-flip top sounds and I think it would be really interesting to hear an overdrive with some attack time, letting the first milliseconds go trough clean and then have the overdrive kick in just like a compressor would.
Does such effect exist? How could it be made?

Best regards

lowfreq33 · #2 03-30-2011, 03:21 AM

You can sort of control the attack and release characteristics of an overdrive by how hard you drive it into clipping, but as far as direct control of those it's not really possible in an analog circuit. They're inter-related with the pre and post gain stages. I suppose this could be done in the digital realm though. It's an interesting thought, I'm curious to see what the real tech heads have to say about this.

ga_edwards · #3 03-30-2011, 07:20 AM

IME Not really. To expand on lowfreq's response, compression is somewhat a byproduct and happy characteristic of overdrive. The character of the compression is wholly determined by the character of the overdrive. You wouldn't be able to alter the compression without completely changing the voice of the drive.

However, you may have luck with a valve compressor, you'll have complete control of the compression with the added warmth of the valve section. If you was to push one really hard you might get the overdrive you desire.

CHILDISHGAMBINO · #4 03-30-2011, 07:53 AM

There's a pedal, I can't remember who makes it, that is basically a and envelope controlled fx loop. So it that might work. I want to say Toadworks makes it maybe? That would work though just set the sensitivity at a setting where the envelope doesn't open right away. I'll see if I can find it.

CHILDISHGAMBINO · #5 03-30-2011, 07:57 AM

ToadWorks Enveloope Dynamically Controlled Effect Loop Pedal

Swift713 · #6 03-30-2011, 08:19 AM

Curious. I have no idea how attack and release are controlled in a compressor. What you propose may just end up being a clipping compressor.

heavyfunkmachin · #7 03-31-2011, 02:51 AM

Uhm... I doubt it would accomplish what i want to hear (check attached image)

Ideally, it would give a fuller sounding attack and then the "thick" sound due to the overdrive...

rratajski · #8 03-31-2011, 04:41 AM

You might want to contact Bongomania directly.

BogeyBass · #9 03-31-2011, 05:32 AM

Sure its possible....and could be done with software first, and if it was a good sound....could be worked into a analog design.

You would have to use a collection of expanders and companders
and a straight forward peak detector with a AR envelope that would be able to control the mix between the clean attack signal and a clipped signal.

could be done with both......a compander with attack and expander with release....both with have noise gates set to mute after the desired portion was completed....
so the expander would give you a clean burst and be gated
and the distortion/compander would come in at the desired rate.

you might be able to test it with a side chained compressor
and a gated expander......expensive really in analog land..but using software would make it easier to find out how lame it sounded.

pretty much in my opinion would be a annoying breathing effect that sounded opposite of straight forward clipping...or touch sensitive distortion on the verge of clean and dirty....

basically Native Instruments Guitar Rig....has a bunch of envelopes that can be set to control any knob....
so you could just keep adding in as many attack/ release envelopes you wanted and use them to control multiple functions....a mixer, a compressor, and a distortion pedal.
this is very much a digital thing...and would be very noisy analog wise...and need much more than 9volts of overhead.

bongomania · #10 03-31-2011, 06:22 AM

While I agree that the digital realm was "made for" this kind of experimentation, I think it doesn't have to be so complex in the analog realm. You see, some compressors can be made to distort while they are compressing. So really you would just want a comp that had that quality, plus the attack and release controls. The trickiest part is finding one where you actually like the way the distortion sounds, within your budget.

If you have some money laying around, the EL Distressor will do the job nicely. I'm told the Cranesong Trakker is nicer, but it costs more. The FMR PBC-6A is definitely worth a try. Also you might want to talk with Dan at DDyna pedals, as he has an overdrive pedal based on a limiter circuit, and it would just need to be modded with an attack control. VFE pedals might be able to mod their (already heavily tweaked) White Stallion so that the comp side controls the OD side. I have a brief list on my page of "dirty" compressors, but most of the good-sounding ones have dirt and compression as separate functions, so the dirt doesn't have an attack control.

I also think that the desired effect might be achieved better from a two-channel setup (parallel, blended). The clean channel would have more initial clarity and "pop" than the dirty channel, while the overdriven channel would sustain with more amplitude than the clean one. Win-win. Although TBH it would take some tweaking to find the right combination of settings.