Palmer PDI-09 "Junction" DI: anyone here actually used it?

bongomania · #1 10-18-2011, 11:28 AM

I'm asking more out of curiosity than to solve any specific functional need. In all the threads I've seen about distortion plus speaker-sim, the Palmer rack units get mentioned, but most people -including me- have not actually used them. The Sansamp, Behringer, H&K, etc. are so much cheaper and easier to experiment with.

I emailed Palmer to ask if they ever considered making a pedal-format box to compete with the BDDI et.al., and they said that actually their passive DI box, "The Junction", has exactly the same speaker sim as their rack units. So that makes me wonder if anyone here has actual hands-on experience with it, and can compare it to the Sansamps and others?

To be clear, I know what it does "on paper", and I know that means some low-end rolloff. I'm looking for actual user feedback. So--anyone?

FaithNoMan · #2 10-18-2011, 01:18 PM

Bongo, have you ever been to Frank Nitsche's site?

FrankNitsch.com - Speaker Simulator Comparison Test - Recorded Sound Samples

I know it's all guitar, but if you go to "next page" at the bottom it has various samples of different cab sims/di boxes, comparing them to each other.

That first page is cool as well though, b/c it lets you hear them before you get to see, directly pitting Behringer, Palmer, and Hughes & Kettner boxes against each other.

I thought the Palmer PDI-09 sounded like it was mic'ed in a room, a bit away from an amp, whereas the Hughes Classic(not the pro) sounded like you were directly(standing) in front of the loudspeaker.

chessrocks · #3 10-18-2011, 03:17 PM

I've used the Palmer Speaker Simulator (PDI-03, I believe) with built-in powersoak on many occasions for recording -- which sounds similar to the unit you're asking about. In some situations, I have found that it lends a more immediate and up-front dimension to the guitar tracks, that I can't quite get with mic'ing the speaker. In other situations, I just find that it's just not quite as convincing, but it completely depends on the situation.

For me, it's usefulness is in the fact that I can drive the amp in to what would otherwise be ear-splitting volumes, during certain times when we're not enjoying the benefit of a world-class studio or equipment, per say. Or if isolation is going to be an issue due to the logistics of the session, but I still want the sound of a blasting cabinet and EL-34's working overtime.

For what it's worth, I know Queens of the Stone Age used one on Songs for the Deaf. Joe Satriani has used one on some of his records, from what I gather, and Lorde-Alge has used them for re-amping bass while mixing/mastering etc. etc. YMMV. And just so you know, my experiences have been limited exclusively to gee-tars of the six-string variety.

If the pedal does, in fact, do the same things that the PDI-03 does, then I will probably wind up buying one at some point in the very near future. Even without the 8 ohm load, I can see many situations where this could be an extremely handy thing to have around.

synaesthesia · #4 10-18-2011, 03:25 PM

The Palmer rack unit will take a power amp load, but I have been using electronic crossovers for line level 'speaker simulation' for a number of years. I have used them in tandem with parametric and/or graphic EQs to simulate the curve of various speakers, but in the main I just use the crossover. A 3 way one will give you a bandpass, a two way one just gives low pass as a speaker sim for line level. The top freq. can be varied with greater ease in the studio for brighter high end or thicker sounding simulation. Better for me than the fixed frequency dedicated speaker sims.

I suppose you could use a DI and then a crossover to take a power amp load, e.g. with a Countryman or something similar and then a Electronic crossover, but I've never tried.

I use this set up as I have several crossovers.

FaithNoMan · #5 10-18-2011, 03:37 PM

I don't think the Palmer Bongo is talking about will take a power amp load.

Palmer | PDI09

synaesthesia · #6 10-18-2011, 03:39 PM

No it won't, the rack one will - I have the Palmer catalogue in my bathroom and did notice that box going for about 1/3 or less than the rack unit (toilet reading- don't laugh). They make some nice gadgets.

made edit to above post re: palmer rack unit

chessrocks · #7 10-18-2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthesia

made edit to above post re: palmer rack unit

But left in the part about reading it on the toilet. For added dramatic effect.

The pedal version acts as middle man between amp and cabinet -- which would actually be more ideal, sonicallly (since the load would be that of an actual speaker). You'd just lose the isolation factor (obviously), and might wind up defeating the whole purpose of having one in the first place, depending on what your purposes are (why not just mic the cabinet at that point?).

You could run the other end out to a dummy load/power soak instead of the cabinet. Which wouldn't give you the same kind of load you'd get with a speaker and wouldn't react the same ... so you would be losing some of the aesthetic in favor of the isolation. Same issues you'd get, though, with the rack version.

FaithNoMan · #8 10-18-2011, 04:07 PM

uh oh.

Went from "power amp loads" to something else.

synaesthesia · #9 10-18-2011, 04:11 PM

I stand corrected, the PDI-09 will take a power amp load, according to their website:Palmer | PDI09

NKBassman · #10 10-18-2011, 04:11 PM

I've never used the Palmer unit, but I can tell you that the ADA Microcab makes the H&K RedBox look like a decorative paperweight. I've got the older version of the ADA though that can't take a speaker level signal.

FaithNoMan · #11 10-18-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NKBassman

I've never used the Palmer unit, but I can tell you that the ADA Microcab makes the H&K RedBox look like a decorative paperweight. I've got the older version of the ADA though that can't take a speaker level signal.

Which H&K? There are 4 different models and they all sound different.

MarkII, MarkIII, Redbox Pro, Redbox Classic?

The Classic sounds best(of the H&K) to my ears, on the Frank Nitsche website(he tested the Pro as well, and the Palmer, which I liked)

NKBassman · #12 10-18-2011, 04:33 PM

I have the Red Box Classic. It's alright but the ADA sounds way better to me and has far more adjustability. Well, infinitely more actually, since the Red Box has none.

bongomania · #13 10-18-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthesia

I stand corrected, the PDI-09 will take a power amp load, according to their website:Palmer | PDI09

Just a semantic thing, but the output of a power amp isn't a load--whatever device the power amp output goes to, like a speaker, is a load.

The PDI-09 is designed to be able to take the output of a power amp, but it will not provide the sort of load that a typical tube amp needs for safe operation.

deepwave · #14 02-02-2012, 12:12 PM

Hi,
here its

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

I'm asking more out of curiosity than to solve any specific functional need. ...
>> same for me!

To be clear, I know what it does "on paper", and I know that means some low-end rolloff. .....

but I would like to know better what it does on paper!
The one thing for sure is that it does some serious equalizing, especially cutting down the highs and also a bit the ultra lows.
But is there any other effect?
As far as I imagine, a real speaker has the following effects: EQ-ing, but also compression and - at more extreme volumes - some kind of distortion. So does a speaker emulator simulate all of these effects, or just the EQing?
And IF it does just the EQing, why then not using an equalizer pedal instead? That would give a lot more flexibility soundwise, or am I completely wrong with this idea?

Cheers