Pedal board virgin...

[bluehevy75]

I've been playing for about 10 years and I've never used any pedals but I want to branch out.

I figure working with sounds I already like is a step in the right direction.

Below are some songs with sounds that I like. I've done some searches so I think I know a little. But I would love to know what else people out there know about how to create the sounds listed below.

1. Band: Ike and Tina Turner
Song: Ghetto Funk

2. Band: Pretty Things
Song: Come See Me

3. Band: Morphine
Did Mark Sandman use pedals? If so what?

4. Band: Racontours
Song: Salute Your Salution
I read this is an English Muffin and some kind of
octave pedal?--other ideas or suggestions?

5. Band: Sly and the Family Stone
Song: Dance to the Music
I read that Larry Graham used a Juggernaut or on this.
Any other ideas, or pro cons for this pedal?

6. Sometimes I'm listening to certain kinds of soul/funk music and I hear what sounds like an "organ bass". I'm guessing this could be an octave pedal with some tremolo or reverb or both. Other ideas here?

If it matters I play through: late 60's/early 70's B-15 and an SVT stack. I'm also in the process of getting another tube head for a cab that I have. That way I can bi-amp my stuff and not loose bottom end.

Thanks everyone,
Kevin

[kevteop]

Sounds like you could use a good fuzz, a gritty overdrive and maybe an octave pedal. Or maybe your upcoming valve head will be able to do the overdrive for you.

A Colorsound Tonebender might be up your alley. Overdrive I don't know - I don't really use it. For octave I'd say the Micro POG if you're going to be adding dirt after it anyway. The tracking is excellent but to me it sounds a bit weedy, but if you're adding colour later it won't matter so much.

And yeah the Micro POG with a good tremolo after it would probably sound very organ-like. Maybe a bit of chorus on the top end would help too.

[bongomania]

I'm pretty sure Sandman's signature tone was all in the 2-string slide bass, no effects (aside from maybe a bit of reverb on the recordings). Graham did use a Juggernaut on some recordings, but he had to go through about a dozen of them to find one that sounds good, and nobody else has ever found a good-sounding one since then. I'm not sure what to recommend in its place exactly, but I know many boutique builders have created bass-friendly Rat-like distortions, so somebody here must have an idea.

[rratajski]

You might have some fun w/ a simple envelope filter for the funk that you're into...

Youtube can give you a good headstart!
Also, search for some reviews on here. Some people have up some soundclips that are quite useful!
Keep us posted in your findings!

[bluehevy75]

Okay, after reading your ideas and checking somethings out on you tube and at guitar center (not my favorite place but lots of stuff to try) I thought about doing the following (comments and suggestions are welcome--more questions follow at bottom):

1. EHX Micro Pog
2. EHX Clone Theory
3. EHX Big Muff or MXR Blow Torch
4. EHX Q-Tron or MXR Bass auto wah

Everything is EHX or MXR because I've played with guitars players that use their stuff and it seems to be decent quality for what you pay. Maybe you all have different experiences. I also like the idea that EHX stuff is made in the states. Maybe MXR is too?


Is the Wiggler cooler than the Clone Theory for tremolo?
Does a tremolo exist with a pedal to adjust the rate and depth while you are playing?

I know that the Blow Torch isn't really a fuzz pedal at all but it sounds like one. I don't really want distortion but that you tube video made the pedal sound good...but I don't really want to play metal. The Muff I could pick up cheap just to try out. Some of those other fuzz pedal are a lot of money.

I don't like the zvex Wooly Mammoth pedal that much but that Fuzz Factory pedal they have sounded cool on the you tube demo. Do you think that would work for the highs on my bass.

My new tube head should arrive any day and I'm going to run the highs through it. I'm guessing the natural overdrive will fit my purposes nicely. If not I'll probably look at something like the English muffin.

Any more ideas or suggestions?

Kevin

[rratajski]

I personally like the Wiggler over the Clone Theory, esp the new, small version.

Play with a muff first (Bass Big Muff if possible) in-store first...If you feel you need more flexible tone-shaping than an American Reissue Big Muff, look at the Blow Torch or a Fulltone.

A Zvex fuzz factory will be okay for bass...if you're going go that route, you might want to search some Devi Ever stuff and take a look at the variety of fuzz and wierd fuzzes they offer...

Also, Empress does some modifications to their tremolo for expression stuff if you ask...

[bluehevy75]

I think I've done the right searches. We've all seen the you tube video. Everyone says, "yes Graham used the Juggernaut he played through a bunch of them till he found a good one...the rest suck." I get it.

But the Juggernaut didn't come out till 79 what was he using on Dance to the Music in '68?

Corollary question: Did all fuzz sounds come from germanium back in the day?

Pick up new tube bass head today. Will try by-amping and let you guys know how it goes. Also, I think I'm going to make my own pedals through GGG and Small Bear.

I was thinking:
Small Bear:
Tremolo Kit

GGG:
Fuzz Face:
60's boutique Option with some bass mods
What do we think about the Hendrix mods? Helpful for bass?

A Couple of AB switch boxes.

The Loop Switch box.

I was also thinking of making that LBS2 clean boost for fun.

I probably need to just buy the auto wah (Q-tron probaby) and Octave pedal (micro pog probably).

Thanks guys,
Kevin

[bluehevy75]

It has taken me sometime but I'm finally there...On a post this old I'm not sure weather I should re-post or just continue this thread but here you go....

I'm finally set up. Here is how it goes: I'm running two rigs. A b-15 (lows) and an old Bogen PA head into some old 2x12's (hi's). I'm using a "Y" after the instrument to split my signal. Essentially a poor man's crossover?

Anyway, my pedal chain on the high end runs as follows: 1. homemade effects loop box, 2. micro pog, 3. homemade fuzz box 4. q-tron, 5. Pulsar. I'm not trying to be a EHX freak it just turned out that way. I tried making a tremolo (small bear) and it was way outside my pay scale. I've made some mods on the bogen so channel two works as a clean blend and have a whirlwind aby on it so i can switch it on or off.

On the low end I've got a lpb1 clean boost (I couldn't make it for what I bought it for).

It's fun and this weekend I finally took some time to figure everything out. Things are working well in general but...

Problems:
1. I like the fuzz tone when I roll of the volume off the bass. I'm able to turn the volume of fuzz up and (or) use channel two (bogen) to make up for the volume loss on the high side. I thought that the boost on the low side would make up for the volume loss there but it seems to just draw volume (or power or volts or something) from pedals on the high side. Whenever I switch the boost on on the lows side the high side gets quieter. What gives?

2. Given: the old amp, some weird interference in a practice space, some homemade pedals, the fact that an amp is running only treble, and pedals that pick up on high frequencies (fuzz, q-tron), I've got some strange high end frequencies running in the background. What can I do about these frequencies? or is this just life? The amp is just a little noisy but with all of these pedals and the room everything gets worse.

Thanks guys,
K

[RCCollins]

1: Ike Turner & the Kings of Rhythm "Ghetto Funk": it's a synthesizer

2: Pretty Things "Come See Me": cranked tube amp. The super low, harsh fuzz sound in the chorus is a guitar.

3. Morphine: see Bongo's post above

4. Raconteurs: Salute Your Salution: could be a Muff'n but could be any number of bass ODs. If there's an octaver in there it's fairly subtle.

5. Sly and the Family Stone "Dance to the Music": I don't think the Proco rat even existed when this song was recorded, so there is NO WAY Larry used a Juggernaut when recording it (and keep in mind LG has his own amp/effect techs so his Juggernaut WILL sound better than one you can buy stock). This was like 1967 so there weren't so many fuzzes to choose from, IIRC he used a Maestro FZ-1, somebody correct me if I am wrong.

6. Soul/funk "organ bass": this is most likely an actual organ, with bass notes played on its pedals. Usually it's not the ONLY bass in the song, unless you happen to be The Doors (not that I should be mentioning them anywhere near "soul" and "funk")

[skulletwhip]

mark sandman did use effects. their was an interview with him on these forums not too long ago. he said he liked ehx stuff.

[bluehevy75]

Since I started this thread I've been speaking to some really friendly people in Boston: the folks at high and dry and some people who are playing with Sandman's former band members...they coached me through putting together a "Sandman" bass....they also told me he often used a ehx micro synth...and on some recordings some fuzz....you can here the impact of these pedals more on later recordings...

There is some concert footage on youtube and he almost never is using a pedal...the earlier albums sound pretty effect free except for reverb (thanks bongo)...

Collins thanks for the in-depth analysis. I have kept reading and I think you are right about the Maestro. Would that sound from "Come See" me destroy a speaker? I'd like to try it out but I know I can't afford a speaker right now.

Anybody have any ideas on my other issues (the ones posted below--not the ones I can't put in print):
1. Using a "y-splitter" and having pedals on one side of the y draining the pedals from the other side.
and
2. Treble sounds being amplified in the high side of my "bi-amp" set up.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bluehevy75

1. Using a "y-splitter" and having pedals on one side of the y draining the pedals from the other side.
and
2. Treble sounds being amplified in the high side of my "bi-amp" set up.

1. That was done in the days of bassists using guitar pedals for distortion. Nowadays with effects loops and pedals made for bass with blend knobs built in, it's not necessary anymore, though some still do it because they don't want to part with their favorite old pedals.

2. Not really an issue unless you're using distortion. Distortion can sound very nasty past 5 or 6khz. That's about it, though.

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by bongomania

I'm pretty sure Sandman's signature tone was all in the 2-string slide bass, no effects (aside from maybe a bit of reverb on the recordings).

To add!

A cheap 50's/60's bass with two strings played with a slide, the slide being KEY the the whole sound, but it is the sound. It takes about the same or even a little more amount of time a effort to play slide on a bass as to play fretless.

[bluehevy75]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

1. That was done in the days of bassists using guitar pedals for distortion. Nowadays with effects loops and pedals made for bass with blend knobs built in, it's not necessary anymore, though some still do it because they don't want to part with their favorite old pedals.

2. Not really an issue unless you're using distortion. Distortion can sound very nasty past 5 or 6khz. That's about it, though.

Thanks for the reply.

1. Let's just assume I don't know any better and I don't have have anything with a blend knob and want to run two rigs. Would pedals from one side of the "y" drain power (for lack of a better word) from the other? If so, is there a way to fix it, short of joining the modern era?

2. Is there a way to fix this? Just turn the high's down?

--kh

[bluehevy75]

Originally Posted by Mudfuzz

To add!

A cheap 50's/60's bass with two strings played with a slide, the slide being KEY the the whole sound, but it is the sound. It takes about the same or even a little more amount of time a effort to play slide on a bass as to play fretless.

Maybe....but I think the chords might be tough to pull off. Plus another part of his bass and sound was the tuning. He played "drop d" an octave up. I don't lay fretless (I'm probably not good enough) but I do know that the way his tone cuts comes, in part, from the tension on those strings. They are tight.

--KH

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bluehevy75

Thanks for the reply.

1. Let's just assume I don't know any better and I don't have have anything with a blend knob and want to run two rigs. Would pedals from one side of the "y" drain power (for lack of a better word) from the other? If so, is there a way to fix it, short of joining the modern era?

2. Is there a way to fix this? Just turn the high's down?

--kh

1. It's not the pedals but splitting the signal is what does it. You send half of your signal to two sources, so naturally you won't have as much gain. You can either buy a couple buffer pedals (MXR Micro Amp is popular for this) to boost each signal or you can turn your amps up (my solution).

2. Yeah, or buy a distortion that has a high frequency cut like the Sansamp VT Bass.

[bluehevy75]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

1. It's not the pedals but splitting the signal is what does it. You send half of your signal to two sources, so naturally you won't have as much gain. You can either buy a couple buffer pedals (MXR Micro Amp is popular for this) to boost each signal or you can turn your amps up (my solution).

2. Yeah, or buy a distortion that has a high frequency cut like the Sansamp VT Bass.

Maybe I didn't explain well. When switch on a pedal (lets say boost) on the low side. It has an effect on the pedals which are on on the high side (maybe the qtron and pog). And it depends on which pedal is on first and which one is louder. It's not just my ear thinking things are changing. I'm pretty sure that pedals on one side are drawing (for lack of a better word) power or signal or whatever from pedals on the other side.

I know that the "y" cuts my gain down across the two amps and that I need to turn stuff up to compensate. I get that. I think that this is something different.

K

[JimmyM]

I've never experienced anything like that, sorry.

[bluehevy75]

No worries. thanks for the help. Anyone else?....