Pedal Decisions

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by Got2SadowskyNYC

The facts on True Bypass can be found here. Ture Bypass does NOT "retain your signal".

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_ag...ue_bypass.html

Even TB pedals have tone lose propertise, because it has to do with resistance of a cable, switch, circuit etc. If you want to TRUELY eliminate tone lose you HAVE to have a high quality impedance buffer (sometimes called a line driver).

Although Boss and other common non TB pedals have a buffer it does effect your tone. This is what gives buffers a bad name. Some pedals companies have very high quality, tonally flat buffers. They include Visual Sound, Bob Bradshaw at Custom Audio Electronics (CAE), MXR in the CAE designed pedals.

Here is a link to Bob Bardshaws FAQ page. See question #3.

http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/faq

Here is an interesting video that Visual Sound did in Nashville TN. This is at a known recording studio and in front of working Nashville guitarists. The "Zach" playing the guitar in the clip is Brad Paisley's former tech and Vintage Guitar Magazine's "Ask Zach".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOBn75-WN30

True Bypass - probably won't hurt unless you're running a gazillion feet of cable - ok.

Crappy buffer - tone suck - not ok.

Quality buffer - good as long as it doesn't run out of headroom, usually costs more or adds another piece of gear to already crowded boards - take it or leave it.

[Got2SadowskyNYC]

If by "gazillion" you mean more than 18 feet total, then you are getting tone loss and TB will not correct it. (You actully do get loss from any cable, regardless of length, but it doesn't start to get noticable until about 18.6 feet.)

"Total feet" should include ALL instrunment cables, jumpers inbetween cables and the wires and switchs in the pedals. You pass 18 feet if you use 2, 10 foot cables. 1 from the guitar to pedals and from pedals to amp. That's 20 feet and you haven't even added the pedals yet.

Tech fact: the switch in ALL TB pedals was not designed for an extremely low voltage, high impedence audio signal.

[Got2SadowskyNYC]

Oh and Visual sound make s abuffer with plenty of head room and it's not much larger than a 50 cent piece. It's the same thing that's in all their pedals.

TB = only slightly less tone suck than a crappy buffer unless you run more than 18.6 feet of cable than any tone saved by TB is lost in the cable.

[scottfeldstein]

I wouldn't bother with the baseballs. You have the bass synth wah and it does alot of the same things. Some might like it better--and they might be right to do so--but that does't change the fact that it's getting some of the same sounds. Why be repetitive?

Look into some retro dirt, like a VT. Or some serious fuzz like a...pedal that has serious fuzz on it.

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by Got2SadowskyNYC

If by "gazillion" you mean more than 18 feet total, then you are getting tone loss and TB will not correct it. (You actully do get loss from any cable, regardless of length, but it doesn't start to get noticable until about 18.6 feet.)

"Total feet" should include ALL instrunment cables, jumpers inbetween cables and the wires and switchs in the pedals. You pass 18 feet if you use 2, 10 foot cables. 1 from the guitar to pedals and from pedals to amp. That's 20 feet and you haven't even added the pedals yet.

Tech fact: the switch in ALL TB pedals was not designed for an extremely low voltage, high impedence audio signal.

This concept of "tone loss" is extremely vague and really sounds more like marketing hype. I work with sensitive electronic equipment in the instrumentation and process control field (field service engineer) and degradation in signal is critical in most cases. Using standard 18 ga copper wire, twisted/shielded pair, any sort of loss in signal is considered negligible up to 100 ft.

I don't have studies and charts in relation to bass and fx, but I have personal experience...12 different fx, a 10' cable and a 25' cable plus all of the connectors. If I line up nothing but the fx with true bypass and do an A/B of my clean tone with pedals and with nothing but the 10' cable, my ears tell me there is no difference. And that's all that matters to most. I'm sure there's some sort of roll-off in the highs and maybe even the lows, but that's what the EQ knobs are for and I don't really care anyways. It still sounds awesome and it's not like a few dB's at 18 kHz are dead presidents falling out of my pocket.

[iriegnome]

I got what I have all hooked up and running... Tuner - Digitech Synth Wah - Boss BF-3 Flange - Boss CEB3 Chorus... I have room for 1 more pedal, but I have also decided I don't like the chorus. It is IMHO, not as different from the Flange than I am looking for.. So, I am going to sell the Chorus and figure out something else to go into it's place

[belkster74]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Upgrade the Bass Synth Wah to a Boss SYB-5, an MXR envelope filter and, depending on how you used the BSW, an MXR Octave Deluxe.

Get a good tuner, like the TC Electronic PolyTune.

Ditch the flanger entirely and get some overdrive/distortion/dirt. If you want retro, get a VT Bass. If you want digital wackiness, get a Source Audio Mutliwave.

You'll be happy as a pig in slop.

Most important: get out your good headphones, go to youtube and listen to the demos of all these pedals and more. It's an invaluable resource.

I have a Epiphone Nikki Sixx signature series blackbird it has no volume or tone or any knobs for that matter, I played a line 6 bass amp at a local pawn shop I really liked the chorus & definantly want some distortion or at least some overdrive on my bass & i'm not wanting a bunch of different pedals so what is a good cheap multieffects pedal in every1's opinion????

[Got2SadowskyNYC]

NKU: You can think it's marketing hype all you want but the fact is there is a noticeable loss of high freqs as a high imp. signal travels through cable. This is an electronic fact. The longer the cable the more loss. As I said above, it's really not noticable till about 18.6 feet.

A cheap cable will "suck" more tone than a high quality cable of the same length because high quality cable is engineered to lower this effect, BUT there still is some loss.

Instrument cable is not "standard 18 guage". It has shielding to protect the signal from RF. It's side effect is tone loss with a high imp signal.

You can demonstrate this yourself without any scopes. Get a 100 foot instrument cable, plug in and the play. Then try a 10 foot cable. You'll notice a big difference in high freq. clarity. The longer cable will sound muffled.

To this day long cable runs in building PA systems need stratigically placed amplifiers to correct for the loss of long cables between the source and the speaker.

[Got2SadowskyNYC]

If there is ANY HYPE at all it's comming from the True Bypass believers. Proof? Look at any pedal ad in a guitar magazine. Nearly all brag about "True Bypass" like it's some magic pill to combate cable tone loss.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by belkster74

i'm not wanting a bunch of different pedals so what is a good cheap multieffects pedal in every1's opinion????

Well, I think you're sacrificing something by going the multieffect pedal route. You don't get to be nitpicky about exactly what each effect will sound like. But I suppose you gain something as well: price, convenience, etc.

Lots of folks like the Zoom models. I've never tried them, myself.

[alec]

Originally Posted by NKUSigEp

I don't have studies and charts in relation to bass and fx, but I have personal experience...12 different fx, a 10' cable and a 25' cable plus all of the connectors. If I line up nothing but the fx with true bypass and do an A/B of my clean tone with pedals and with nothing but the 10' cable, my ears tell me there is no difference.

Are you using a passive or active bass? If it's active, the whole issue is moot since your signal is already buffered.

[Got2SadowskyNYC]

Alec, you are correct. Pickups produce a high Impedance signal. Active preamps drop the signal to low impedance to push through the tone shaping. The side benefit is that it effects everything after it.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by Got2SadowskyNYC

Alec, you are correct. Pickups produce a high Impedance signal. Active preamps drop the signal to low impedance to push through the tone shaping. The side benefit is that it effects everything after it.

Ok, what now? So, me with my Ibanez SR505--passive pickups but an active EQ, that takes a 9v in the back and everything--what's that doing for my signal down the line? It means I can use really long cables with impunity? Or...?

[Got2SadowskyNYC]

Correct. "Impunity" would be an exaggeration, but you get to a point where you'd have to hit another preamp to boost the gain again. We're talking 100's of feet here.

If you had an active/passive switch in active mode your imp. is low therefore you can push through a long cable run.

In passive mode the imp. jumps up and then you'll notice a change in the high freq. of your sound running through the exact same signal chain, assuming you're not hitting a buffered pedal, like Boss.

[cheapbasslovin]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Well, I think you're sacrificing something by going the multieffect pedal route. You don't get to be nitpicky about exactly what each effect will sound like. But I suppose you gain something as well: price, convenience, etc.

Lots of folks like the Zoom models. I've never tried them, myself.

Honestly, with the size and cost of some of the Zoom and L6 models, I don't think that it is. A 'standard' sized pedal that has over 100 effects in it or can run a chain inside of it? Unless you can't see a way to use ANYTHING on it, that is a win/ win, IMO.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by Got2SadowskyNYC

Correct. "Impunity" would be an exaggeration, but you get to a point where you'd have to hit another preamp to boost the gain again. We're talking 100's of feet here.

This is good to know. I'm currently running through a 15' and a 20', with my pedal board in between! Good to know I'm probably ok on that.

[iriegnome]

Modulus 9v Active. 18' George L's main cable, 6' George L's to the board...

[Got2SadowskyNYC]

Scott and Irie:

Since you both have low imp. output active basss this doesn't effect you. It's more of an FYI.

You both mention 2 cables, one to a pedal board and another to the amp. When you're figuring cable length, don't forget the pedal board. Every wire counts. pedal interconnects, the wire from the jack to the switch of the pedal etc. Everything adds to your total cable load. It's easy to hit 20 or 30 feet and not realize it.

[iriegnome]

I am using all 6" cables to connect each of the pedals. So, for me, that would be 3-6" cables plus a 18' from the amp to the board and a 5' from the board to my bass.. total of 24'6" of cable