In praise of Boss buffers

[RCCollins]

Boss pedals get knocked here a lot for various reasons, but a lot of us still use 'em! One of the major complaints folks have is about the alleged "tone suck" of the buffer, over which they prefer a true bypass circuit with a loud, popping switch

Don't get me wrong - I've suffered with tone destroying bypass before - like on old ehx pedals, for instance. Those benefitted greatly from a TBP mod. But Boss pedals have always had a really sturdy, reliable (and silent) switching system with a buffer to help PRESERVE tone

That's not to say that all boss pedals have the same buffer - they don't! There appear to have been several modifications made to the FET buffer they use over the years, and which buffer you have in a Boss pedal has more to do with date of design than date of production.

Here's the reason I am moved to post this thread: I recently checked out a DD-7 (great delay, by the way - competes well with others that cost twice as much) and was struck by the uncanny effect it had on my CLEAN tone when BYPASSED - I had it at the END of my (short) effects chain, so it was restoring lost signal impedance, I suppose. In any case, the difference was VERY noticeable - my bass came through ultra-clear with very little interference noise. I removed the DD-7 and my previous "lo-fi" signal was back.

The DD-7 wasn't a keeper, as I rarely use delay, but this week I got a TU-3 to see if it has the same updated buffer that the DD-7 did. Guess what? It does. So now I have a sweet buffer at the front of my chain - this is great, because except for my trusty TU-2, all my effects are true bypass!

The TU-3 is also the fastest and most accurate pedal tuner I've used. And yes, I've tried 'em all.

So anyway, before you buy the whole "tone suck" hype, TRY one one the recent Boss pedals. You might be surprised by the results!

[NortyFiner]

I actually have been hunting for a flanger lately, and considering the Boss BF-3. Hmmm.

[GHI]

+1

I got my TU-2 instead of a true bypass tuner for this exact reason. I like to keep mine at the end of my chain tho. Some fuzzes don't like buffers.

[TOOL460002]

so... the i love boss club part two?

actually, ive got a dd7 out for modifications. ive owned one before, and currently use a timefactor (or ps-3 delay). i buffer everything, always, and havent had fuzzes respond poorly, or, equally likely, i just like the way they sound that way.

so- in conclusion, i cant say that i praise or denounce the boss buffer. i also dont understand the occasional hate for it, but i also dont own your bass/rig.

the only reason i would trash on a pedal is if i think they couldve designed it better. if the ps-3 had a tap tempo in, it would easily be the greatest effect ive owned (no bs). if they made the dd7 with an on board tap tempo it would be perfect, but, as it is, the only reason i bought another was to get that mod done, and its pretty inexpensive. boss could easily do that, but the only units with on board tt are the bigger ones, and i just dont get that.

buffer: fine. design: always leaves something to be desired to me (but then again, ive gotten to the point of only wanting exactly the right fit).

[Awesomenaut]

Originally Posted by RCCollins

The TU-3 is also the fastest and most accurate pedal tuner I've used. And yes, I've tried 'em all.

I'd have to humbly disagree.

[Matt Dean]

Oh oh.... not the tuner wars part two.

[dannybuoy]

I tested a bunch of buffered pedals in the loop of a Barge blender, set to 100% wet. This let me quickly A/B a pedal against the one in the Barge, which is pretty decent. I used a headphone amp and decent headphones to test. With the Tech 21 VT I couldn't detect any change, but I could hear a change with the Boss pedals. It was hard to describe but definitely there, a very subtle change for the worse that you probably couldn't detect through a typical bass rig.

So while a buffer can sound buffer than no buffer at all, not all buffers are equal!

[bassteban]

Originally Posted by Awesomenaut

I'd have to humbly disagree.

You disagree that this is the fastest and most accurate tuner that RC has used, or that he's tried them all?

[Awesomenaut]

Originally Posted by Matt Dean

Oh oh.... not the tuner wars part two.

I didn't know there was a part one. I really don't want to open up a can of worms...let's talk about buffers.

I have an OC-2 and I notice no tone suck when either off or on, while some of my DOD pedals kill my tone like none other (and I'm not even a tone nut).

[blastjv]

I have a very old Boss OC-2 Octaver, and a DOD FX72 Bass Stereo Flanger as the only 2 buffered pedals on my board (not counting the Xotic BB, which is TBP, but is always switched 'on' on my board, so my signal is always buffered by it anyway), and I was very surprised at how good the buffers were after hearing so many horror stories, and I was REALLY being picky about that sort of thing when I was putting my board together. ANY pedal that did ANYTHING negative to my sound was getting ditched (or modded, like my Morley PWB, which had the WORST buffer I've ever heard).


-JV

[silky smoove]

Originally Posted by RCCollins

over which they prefer a true bypass circuit with a loud, popping switch

The pop doesn't come through you signal chain, unless there's someting wrong with the pedal itself, at which point you can hardly fault the switching method. This makes it inaudible on most of the stages where people will use them. Even during a quiet acoustic set, the pop from a mechanical switch being depressed isn't likely to be heard. Even if it is heard, it will be very faint, and no one is going to care in the crowd. If it's that big of a deal, just step on it in time with the tune and it will sound like a percussion instrument

I don't have a dog in the fight as I've used buffered and true bypass pedals with great success, both independently and in conjunction with one another. My current board is completely true bypass, but I wouldn't hesitate to throw a buffered pedal on the board if I liked how it sounded on and bypassed.

[lowfreqgeek]

I my own personal experience, I CAN hear a difference with the Boss and VT Bass buffers - and it's not for the better. I ended up with a Radial Big Shot effect loop switcher to add 2 true-bypass loops to my board. The difference is pretty stark on the loop with the Boss pedals (CEB-3 and OC3) between true-bypass and the pedals just being "off", but the signal going through the loop. The difference is more subtle with the VT Bass on it's own loop, but it's noticeable, nonetheless. I don't subscribe to the VT-all-the-time mentality, so I was happy to have a way to bypass it when I just wanted the Boss effects and my EB volume pedal.

Speaking of tuners, the Peterson Strobostomp II is THE most accurate pedal tuner, bar none. And it has true bypass. I kept it off my board as I only use the board occasionally and didn't want to tie up my tuner to the board. It, too, has a switchable buffer that is better (IMO) than the VT Bass or Boss buffers, but I usually keep it switched into the true bypass mode.

Oh, and NONE of my true bypass switches pop after I've switched them on/off once each. I've NEVER had one pop while I was actually playing - only when they are first plugged in and the contacts are at different potentials. Otherwise, it's not really an issue.

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by GHI

+1

I got my TU-2 instead of a true bypass tuner for this exact reason. I like to keep mine at the end of my chain tho. Some fuzzes don't like buffers.

Yup, very true. Ya gotta use your head on these matters

Originally Posted by dannybuoy

So while a buffer can sound buffer than no buffer at all, not all buffers are equal!

My point here is that the buffer on recent Boss pedal designs is better than on previous ones - and in my experience it IMPROVES my clean tone VERY NOTICEABLY. Yes, the buffer on the TU-3 sounds better than that on the TU-2.

Originally Posted by lowfreqgeek

I my own personal experience, I CAN hear a difference with the Boss and VT Bass buffers - and it's not for the better.

Try one of the more recent Boss releases. For real.

Originally Posted by silky smoove

The pop doesn't come through you signal chain, unless there's someting wrong with the pedal itself, at which point you can hardly fault the switching method. This makes it inaudible on most of the stages where people will use them.

tell that to everybody who has had problems with audible pops!


...and no, I am not being paid my Roland Corp. I tried the DD-7 as a delay - the improved dry signal I noticed was distinct enough that I could detect it immediately; I wasn't even listening for it. Actually took some head scratching to figure out what was doing it

[meatwad]

I like Boss pedals for a lot of reasons, and their buffers have never made a noticeable difference to me. I've also liked and used Ibanez's 9-series pedals, along with EH. All along, I've never had a pedal that I thought sounded bad turned off... Maybe I'm crazy after all?

[GHI]

Originally Posted by RCCollins

My point here is that the buffer on recent Boss pedal designs is better than on previous ones - and in my experience it IMPROVES my clean tone VERY NOTICEABLY. Yes, the buffer on the TU-3 sounds better than that on the TU-2.

You sure about that? I worked in a music shop around the time the TU-3 was released along with the others, and I'm quite certain that when I asked the visiting boss salesman about it he told me that the TU-3 had the same buffer as the TU-2.

[lowfreqgeek]

Originally Posted by RCCollins

Try one of the more recent Boss releases. For real.

My CEB-3 is at least 9-10 years old, but the OC-3 is a bit newer. So it's quite possible that the newly released pedals have improved a lot.

No way would I say "no, you're wrong". I just haven't had the same experience - but my experience is admittedly with relatively older BOSS pedals.

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by GHI

You sure about that? I worked in a music shop around the time the TU-3 was released along with the others, and I'm quite certain that when I asked the visiting boss salesman about it he told me that the TU-3 had the same buffer as the TU-2.

The specifics are fairly obscure; both are FET buffers for sure, but there seem to have been some tweaks - Boss has used several different versions over the years and has never made any kind of announcement or hyped it. Maybe a builder/modder can ring in with the details - I just know what I heard, and my cursory searches did indicate that the buffer was recently tweaked

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by lowfreqgeek

My CEB-3 is at least 9-10 years old, but the OC-3 is a bit newer. So it's quite possible that the newly released pedals have improved a lot.

No way would I say "no, you're wrong". I just haven't had the same experience - but my experience is admittedly with relatively older BOSS pedals.

I am with you - we're talking about different experiences with different rigs and setups. We all have different needs - I'm just making noise because I think this info will be useful to many people

[Joe Gress]

One thing with Digitech/Boss type pedals, they're a hell of a lot easier to stomp on. (****ing little 3dpt switches with their tiny ass heads and slippery surfaces)

[TOOL460002]

Originally Posted by Joe Gress

One thing with Digitech/Boss type pedals, they're a hell of a lot easier to stomp on. (****ing little 3dpt switches with their tiny ass heads and slippery surfaces)

i thought tap dancing your board was a prerequisite for posting here?