pre amplifier to complement my sound?

[Mr. BassmanPT]

hey all,

i usually do not post in this section of the forums mainly because i tend to believe that bass should be played as clear as it is possible.

i once used a multi effects processor for bass (made by korg) and got used to its sound.. after about 2 years of using it, when i plugged the bass without this processor in the signal path, i was completely astonished with the amazing sound the bass had, a sound i wasn't able to use because it was being choked by the processor (even in bypass mode!!!!!).

this is the reason i stopped using effects, the only effect i have now is a "tuner" and i really made sure it was true bypass, do not want to spoil my good sounding basses with some transistors!

anyway, sometimes i feel like i need a boost in my sound.. like when you are playing with your fingers and in the middle of a song you switch to slap/pop and you do not get through the mix as you want to!

the thing is, i do not like pedals and i know that tech 21 has a rack pre amp. do you think this is a good option for me?

my setup is like this:

bass goes to rack tuner (korg dtr 2000), tuner goes to hartke ha3500 amplifier and then to my 410 xl hartke cabinet.

my requisites for using "effects" once again are:

- i do not want pedals because i do not like the mess with the cables so a rack type pre amp is what i am looking for.

- it must be true bypass if i want the sound to be just like it is right now!


what do you have to say about the tech 21 sansamp rbi? is this what i am looking for? are there better alternatives? i want to keep using the hartke head, this add on will have to complement what i have (as described before)

my budget for this is 500 euros maximum!

regards

[Mr. BassmanPT]

bump

[cheapbasslovin]

Sounds to me like you want a compressor. Compressors essentially squash the sine wave created by your bass and then increase the volume to bring it back to unity. This way the peaks of your slap tone aren't so high and the parts that come out at lower volume are brought closer to mix level.

I can't recommend you a rack unit comp because I have NO experience with them. TB member Bongomania has an extensive review site called www.ovnilab.com. Most of what he has reviewed are pedals, but there are still a lot of rack units there. You'll want to check out his FAQ on compressors and his 'favorites' have rack units separated so you can check those out individually.

If you decide that you still want a preamp, Tech21 doesn't use true bypass, but their bypass is very good.

FWIW, most of us effects junkies aren't trying to fix our tone with pedals, rather augment our range of tones with them. In fact many lengths are gone to to preserve clean tone. Your Korg is an example of a digital bypass, renowned for taking good tone and flushing it down the toilet. Other types of buffered bypasses as well as true bypass will preserve tone MUCH better than an old digital bypass. If you meander in and out of the effects forum a little bit you'll see how much time is dedicated to getting a good bypass out of our effects.

[Mr. BassmanPT]

Originally Posted by cheapbasslovin

Sounds to me like you want a compressor. Compressors essentially squash the sine wave created by your bass and then increase the volume to bring it back to unity. This way the peaks of your slap tone aren't so high and the parts that come out at lower volume are brought closer to mix level.

I can't recommend you a rack unit comp because I have NO experience with them. TB member Bongomania has an extensive review site called www.ovnilab.com. Most of what he has reviewed are pedals, but there are still a lot of rack units there. You'll want to check out his FAQ on compressors and his 'favorites' have rack units separated so you can check those out individually.

If you decide that you still want a preamp, Tech21 doesn't use true bypass, but their bypass is very good.

FWIW, most of us effects junkies aren't trying to fix our tone with pedals, rather augment our range of tones with them. In fact many lengths are gone to to preserve clean tone. Your Korg is an example of a digital bypass, renowned for taking good tone and flushing it down the toilet. Other types of buffered bypasses as well as true bypass will preserve tone MUCH better than an old digital bypass. If you meander in and out of the effects forum a little bit you'll see how much time is dedicated to getting a good bypass out of our effects.

thanks for your answer. i already took a look in the site you provided me and i sure have lots of information on compressors.

however, is it really a compressor that i need? even i am not sure of what it is that i need, if it is a compressor, a pre amp or both..

i have a compressor built in the hartke head, although i recognise one specific unit would be much better.

one side note, and i do not want to deviate from the main topic here but i did not understood quite right what you said about, and let me quote you,

Your Korg is an example of a digital bypass, renowned for taking good tone and flushing it down the toilet

if i turn the tuner off, it still sends the sound through the unit and the sound remains the same! even if i plug the bass directly into the amplifier, the only difference i notice is volume, the tone remains the same.. isn't this a true bypass unit?

that thought being laid down, if you know i would like to have an answer..

now, lets continue with the main discussion here.

once again, thanks for all your input!

[cheapbasslovin]

I was talking about your Korg multi effects pedal. It didn't even dawn on me that your tuner also was a Korg .

From what I understand from your post, you don't want to use any cables coming from your amp out to the stage. If I got this right, then a preamp or booster wont help out because it will shape your sound the same the whole time. A comp will make your levels more even which should keep you thick(er) in the mix when your technique is one that can thin the sound a bit.

I can say that compressors are a tricky beast to learn. I only recently have started to understand what a comp can do for my sound. The first couple of comps I used had a crush and blossom style action which killed my attack and then awkwardly bloomed into a long sustain. I am a super wanker so I'm rarely in need of sustain and absolutely don't need my attack killed. I finally have used some comps that have a more natural action and I can hear some of the more subtle differences from one to another.

If you're good for switching mid song, then any switchable preamp, eq, or compressor could work for you. I don't have much experience with rack gear, however. Sorry.

[Mr. BassmanPT]

thanks once again for the reply.. i see you were not referring to my tuner and i am kind of relieved with that! i just love that tuner!

anyway, you got it right, i really try to avoid the mess of having cables all over the stage. but maybe i can deal with a simple on/off switch that stays next to my cabinet all the time?

give me some more information! i am searching information on compressors/pre amps and there are so many options.. and i still am not sure what i want/need.

thing is, i am more than happy with my tone, it is just that sometimes i want to have a more growly sound, more attack, more volume for "that riff". if i slap, i sometimes do not get enough power? that is why i thought about the sansamp! but only if i can have the same clear sound i have at the moment..

maybe you can give me more clues with that descrition? is it a pre amp, a compressor or both?

[Sound Chaser]

So, you need a compressor for when you slap, and a preamp/overdrive/boost for when you want some extra oomph. The thing is, unless you get pedals, there's no way to switch them in or out, unless you get a loop control system which would be much more expensive and complicated. My recommendation is to get a compressor pedal (the Rothwell Love Squeeze is very effective and has a reputation for not affecting one's tone), to even out your levels, and then either get a preamp (like the SansAmp) or an overdrive/boost (Xotic BB or RC, etc.) after it for when you want more volume.

[TXLawDawg]

The Sansamp RBI is a great piece of equipment to have in the rack IMHO. I wouldn't part with mine. If it died on me or was stolen, I would promptly buy a replacement. I love the sound I get from my GK 1001RBII but add the RBI in and it just seems to "wake" everything up. Prior to the GK, I was running a power amp with the RBI and it sounded great - I just really like the GK stuff too so I combined the two.

Now as far as the RBI providing a boost during the middle of the song, it can do that via a footswitch if you want to play with it off and then engage it but that would be a cable and a "pedal" out in front of you.

Regardless, the RBI is a great piece of gear.

[Mark Olson]

If you want something to kick on for playing thumbstyle, a Sansamp is only going to crapify your thumbstyle sound. I've owned the whole line, they don't sound good for thumbstyle.

What you really want is a head with a footswitchable graphic EQ. What you need to get your different techniques to cut through the mix the same is switchable EQ. Or you could get a rack EQ and use it with your current head.

But the easiest way to have a nice balance between fingerstyle and thumbstyle sounds is to have technique that allows for that as well as a bass that has a nice even response to varying techniques. What bass are you playing? And just so you realize there are many, many bassists out there that have the right technique/bass to switch between finger and thumbstyle and sound fine both ways without any effects. In this case I'd have to say you'd be using effects to make up for a deficiency in either technique or your bass.

[Darkglass]

Hello; I read you thread about a preamp. And I think I could maybe help you. I am a bass electronics designer.
I am about to release a new pedal line, and there's one that I think may work for you!

The Harmonic Booster is a Enhancer/Mid Booster, you can select what mode you want with a switch, is ideal for improving the natural tone of your bass, and fattening and tightening up.
Here you can see a video of the earlier version: Http://www.youtube.com/DarkglassEffects

The new version will feature the same control plus a Ultra high switch, and active 2 band EQ.

Now here's the thing, if you want a rack version for example, I coul design a build it for you, we could even add more bands to the EQ for ultimate Mid controls, and basically build what you really want, instead of setteling for what's avaliable on the market.

The final cost will depend entirely on what, and how many controls you want... But I thin we can definetly design a customized product within your budget range.

All my gear is 100% designed and built in Finland, using the best components avaliable.

If you are interested, you can drop me a leter to darkfinn@gmail.com

Best Regards

Douglas

[Mr. BassmanPT]

Originally Posted by Sound Chaser

So, you need a compressor for when you slap, and a preamp/overdrive/boost for when you want some extra oomph. The thing is, unless you get pedals, there's no way to switch them in or out, unless you get a loop control system which would be much more expensive and complicated. My recommendation is to get a compressor pedal (the Rothwell Love Squeeze is very effective and has a reputation for not affecting one's tone), to even out your levels, and then either get a preamp (like the SansAmp) or an overdrive/boost (Xotic BB or RC, etc.) after it for when you want more volume.

yes, i have been thinking and it seems i do not have a chance, i will have to have switches, leading me to either pedals or racks with footswitches. i will take a look into these options. keep the recommendations comming but i prefer rack type gear!

Originally Posted by TXLawDawg

The Sansamp RBI is a great piece of equipment to have in the rack IMHO. I wouldn't part with mine. If it died on me or was stolen, I would promptly buy a replacement. I love the sound I get from my GK 1001RBII but add the RBI in and it just seems to "wake" everything up. Prior to the GK, I was running a power amp with the RBI and it sounded great - I just really like the GK stuff too so I combined the two.

Now as far as the RBI providing a boost during the middle of the song, it can do that via a footswitch if you want to play with it off and then engage it but that would be a cable and a "pedal" out in front of you.

Regardless, the RBI is a great piece of gear.

yes, like i said earlier, what i want to do is only achieved with either a pedal or a footswitch. thanks for your input on the rbi!

Originally Posted by Mark Olson

If you want something to kick on for playing thumbstyle, a Sansamp is only going to crapify your thumbstyle sound. I've owned the whole line, they don't sound good for thumbstyle.

What you really want is a head with a footswitchable graphic EQ. What you need to get your different techniques to cut through the mix the same is switchable EQ. Or you could get a rack EQ and use it with your current head.

But the easiest way to have a nice balance between fingerstyle and thumbstyle sounds is to have technique that allows for that as well as a bass that has a nice even response to varying techniques. What bass are you playing? And just so you realize there are many, many bassists out there that have the right technique/bass to switch between finger and thumbstyle and sound fine both ways without any effects. In this case I'd have to say you'd be using effects to make up for a deficiency in either technique or your bass.

equalizers are hard to configure. my hartke head has almost all frequencies flat because when i mess too much with it, it messes with the overall sound of the band and everything sounds like crap in the mix. so i want to avoid equalizers.

concerning technique, i can balance volumes between styles if i play lighter fingerstyle, ala gary willis but i like to dig in a bit more and when i switch to slap, it lacks volume that is granted fingerstyle because of my heavy digging!

currently i usually play a stingray fretted and a jp custom fretless.. so quality of instruments isn't the issue here.

Originally Posted by Darkglass

Hello; I read you thread about a preamp. And I think I could maybe help you. I am a bass electronics designer.
I am about to release a new pedal line, and there's one that I think may work for you!

The Harmonic Booster is a Enhancer/Mid Booster, you can select what mode you want with a switch, is ideal for improving the natural tone of your bass, and fattening and tightening up.
Here you can see a video of the earlier version: Http://www.youtube.com/DarkglassEffects

The new version will feature the same control plus a Ultra high switch, and active 2 band EQ.

Now here's the thing, if you want a rack version for example, I coul design a build it for you, we could even add more bands to the EQ for ultimate Mid controls, and basically build what you really want, instead of setteling for what's avaliable on the market.

The final cost will depend entirely on what, and how many controls you want... But I thin we can definetly design a customized product within your budget range.

All my gear is 100% designed and built in Finland, using the best components avaliable.

If you are interested, you can drop me a leter to darkfinn@gmail.com

Best Regards

Douglas

thanks for your description.. i am at work now and wasn't able to listen to your sound clips. when i get home i will take a look in them and maybe we can design something? if we reach an agreement, i can already tell you it will have to be a rack type device (and a footswitch since these are mandatory for what i want to do).

anyway, keep up with suggestions.

regards and thanks to all of you

[ga_edwards]

What bass are you using? If it has a flexible enough eq, you may be able to set it up for finger style and slap at the flick of a switch. I used to do this with my active Thumb - bypass for finger, and kick in the eq with a bottom and top boost for slap and more 'bassy' disco finger style tunes.

You could even do this with a passive tone control to a certain extent. Roll it back for finger style, and open it up for slap. Perhaps with more top than usual on the amp so you don't lose too much treble with the tone rolled back.

[alexgeddy]

nyway, sometimes i feel like i need a boost in my sound.. like when you are playing with your fingers and in the middle of a song you switch to slap/pop and you do not get through the mix as you want to!


If you are looking for a preamp that you can boost the level with a foot switch, the EDEN Navigator has a 10 db of boost available with the footswitch controller or you can do it from the front panel. It doesn;t change your tone just boosts the level...But I'm not really sure if you are trying compensate from fingerstyle to slap.... that is another story as others have suggested,


hope this helps

[Mr. BassmanPT]

Originally Posted by ga_edwards

What bass are you using? If it has a flexible enough eq, you may be able to set it up for finger style and slap at the flick of a switch. I used to do this with my active Thumb - bypass for finger, and kick in the eq with a bottom and top boost for slap and more 'bassy' disco finger style tunes.

You could even do this with a passive tone control to a certain extent. Roll it back for finger style, and open it up for slap. Perhaps with more top than usual on the amp so you don't lose too much treble with the tone rolled back.

a stingray fretted and a jp custom fretless is what i am mainly using! the switch of the music man is not that versatile and the fretless is passive so i cannot do that!

but thanks anyway!

Originally Posted by alexgeddy

nyway, sometimes i feel like i need a boost in my sound.. like when you are playing with your fingers and in the middle of a song you switch to slap/pop and you do not get through the mix as you want to!


If you are looking for a preamp that you can boost the level with a foot switch, the EDEN Navigator has a 10 db of boost available with the footswitch controller or you can do it from the front panel. It doesn;t change your tone just boosts the level...But I'm not really sure if you are trying compensate from fingerstyle to slap.... that is another story as others have suggested,


hope this helps

it sure helped mate! thanks a lot!