preamp pedals?

bobodechimp · #1 10-11-2011, 04:01 PM

current setup: jazz bass, bad monkey, bass big muff, cr-7 chorus, backline 600, gk sbxII115

known future setup: jazz bass, badmonkey, bass big muff, (unknown pre) 1000watt poweramp, bfm jack115

options needed for unknown pre: zoom b2, Eden wtdi, ehx bass metaphors, other.

needs: tone shaping, eq, able to be ran into poweramp, a clean yet warm tone. comp is a plus, other effects; overdrive, filters, reverb, etc. aren't a selling point nor a detractor.

things i know: that i am comparing apples to oranges, but their still fruit.

things i don't know: if i knew them they wouldn't be unknown now would they

bongomania · #2 10-11-2011, 04:15 PM

The thing is, there are LOTS of preamp pedals to chose from, and an equal number of reasons to choose any one of them.

The "drive a power amp" thing is a good detail, that helps narrow it down. Bear in mind that some power amps are better for this than others--you want to look at the input sensitivity rating, which will be between 0.7 and 1.5 volts. The higher that number, the "hotter" or "louder" the output of the preamp will need to be, to drive the power amp well. IOW if you get a really high-output preamp like the Rusty Box, any power amp will do. But if you get a preamp with lower output, you may have to start getting pickier about the power amp.

The biggest question is "what's your budget". I can think of a couple of pedal preamps that cost over $400, but there are plenty of cheaper ones, good ones, so name your actual spending limit.

CTC564 · #3 10-11-2011, 04:50 PM

Great info Bongomania...I can't seem to find any info on the input sensitivity rating for an Aguilar Tone Hammer pedal...would this disqualify it as a preamp pedal?

bongomania · #4 10-11-2011, 06:01 PM

Ah no that's the thing, there are absolutely no preamps anywhere that ever have this rating. We're completely hosed in terms of simply looking at the spec sheets on the preamp side. What you have to do is read through threads about any specific preamp, looking for commentary on how well it does at driving various power amps. I know, that sounds ridiculous, but it's the reality. The rating is only useful if, for example, somebody says the Aguilar drives X power amp fine, and you find out that X power amp has a 1.4V sensitivity--that tells you the Aguilar will also drive any other power amp with a high rating like that.

bobodechimp · #5 10-11-2011, 06:02 PM

the power amp i was thinking about is a i nuke1000 i couldn't find the input sensitivity rating for the amp which leads me to believe that is in the higher end of the spectrum. i like this amp due to it's cost. i know that there is not such thing as a free lunch and that you get what you pay for. but one i am not currently playing out, but hope to in the future. And two if i crapes out in a year or two i only lost 200 bucks. i am how ever not married to the i nuke but i am married to budget minded things, so if not the i nuke, used will be my only other option. my price range for a pre will be less than 200 and sadly that's pushing it. i have toyed around with getting an art or beheringer mic tube pre with the modeling knob. but that leads my still in the market for a tone stack of sorts. a comp hopefully will not be an issue if i can get my ggg orange squeeze working. i only know enough about electronics to be dangerous. and my poor dad who is an electrical engineer is to busies with my younger sibling, ages 5 and 8 to help

Oobly · #6 10-12-2011, 07:02 AM

Behringer are very liberal with their power ratings, the 1000 may not give you enough actual wattage, roughly 600W into 8 ohm PEAK. Not sure what the RMS of that is, but I think the cab could handle more than that, so you won't have as much headroom as a true 1000W amp. The 3000 could give you 900W peak, so that may be worth a look. The DSP models in particular look interesting. Lots of useful functions on there. The highpass filter may be useful with the BFM cab.

Unfortunately they have a pretty poor track record with reliability (the brand as a whole, not the specific model).

If you can save up a little more, the Carvin BX1500 may give you what you want unless you are really sold on a separate pre / power setup. 900W into 8 ohms, compressor, parametric and graphic EQs, pre/post DI, ability to biamp, tube preamp with class D power amp, etc.

I went with a Crown XLS Drivecore 1500 and DHA VT-2 Bass Std EQ preamp to drive my fEARful 15" cab. The VT2 acts as my preamp, EQ, distortion and DI.

There are lots of options, to be honest.

bongomania · #7 10-12-2011, 01:44 PM

On a budget, I would pick Carvin over Behringer, and I would look at efficiency rather than wattage. IOW I would look for threads describing an amp or cab as "incredibly loud" in a context similar to my own (like if you're playing metal in a garage, look for comments from other guys playing metal in a garage)... I would not look at wattage.

PilbaraBass · #8 10-12-2011, 02:28 PM

@OP Another parameter to look at is the output of your preamp. Zoom b2 will not cut the mustard at 0dBu. I believe the WTDI has more output, but I'll leave the specification hunting up to you.

caeman · #9 10-12-2011, 04:02 PM

Another pre-amp option or two:

Joe Meek gbQ
The Joemeek gbQ

JHS Green Tea Bass Utility
JHS Green Tea Bass

[sfx] Bass Preamp
[sfx]:Custom Shop - case study: Bass preamplifier

[sfx] Big Beautiful Bass
[sfx]:Big Beautiful Bass

I am not sure about any of them being able to directly drive a power amp.

de Lisle Eighty-Sixed
http://www.delisleguitar.com/index.php/pedals

It has an output specifically for power amps.

Bassman71 · #10 10-12-2011, 06:29 PM

I went through a similar process of identifying a preamp that would drive a poweramp a few months ago (I was also looking for sweepable mids). My journey and the results are in this thread: Pedal Preamp / DI with sweepable mids - options?.

Ended up with an Aguilar Tone Hammer and couldn't be happier.

bobodechimp · #11 10-12-2011, 11:20 PM

the tone hammer looks nice but it is going out of my budget a bit.
question, would an art v3 or beheringer mic200 mic pre offer enough gain to drive a power amp allowing me to use some other tone shaper, something with lower output, to tailor my sound. maybe even a cheap/used eq pedal. right now what i am looking for is just the bare bones good is good enough grate would be grate but unnecessary.

bongomania · #12 10-12-2011, 11:27 PM

Yes most mic pre's have plenty of gain for this purpose. The ART tube ones are popular for bass.

Oobly · #13 10-13-2011, 04:54 AM

The ART tube MP is really good value, great as a budget preamp, but no tone shaping. The ART Pro Channel is a rack mount unit with optical and tube compressor and EQ, but it costs a lot more. The Presonus Tube Pre and Studio Channel are another pair in a similar vein. The Sansamp VT-Bass and deluxe can drive SOME power amps and are quite flexible, too. It can't drive the Crown very well, though (it needs 1.4v).

For power amps, the Peavey IPR and Crown XLS are good choices on a budget.

As I said before, there are lots of options. On a budget and with your requirements I would still probably go for the Carvin. It has good features, quality, power and value, not to mention simplicity, having it all in one unit. Can't ask for more than that.

caeman · #14 10-13-2011, 05:37 AM

Could a Line6 M5 work as a preamp type setup?

bobodechimp · #15 10-13-2011, 08:18 AM

the m5 lacks any sort of bass tone shaper in it I've checked it out quite sexy though. it will be a future gas attack for me i am shore.

caeman · #16 11-04-2011, 08:17 AM

It has been nearly a month now, Bob. What did you end up deciding on?

bobodechimp · #17 11-05-2011, 12:31 AM

you know i told my wife i loved her a week after i meat her. i asked her to marry me 2 weeks after that. it was the best dission i have ever made. we have been happy married now for 7 years. but it's funny i still can't figure out what pre i want. right now though i'm using the line out on my roland bass cube to drive a power amp love the sound but god damn it's a 37 pound pre-amp. right now it's one of 2 things world tour pre or carvin bx500. things are all up in the air though. thought my cab blow but no it's my amps pre. funny i was only really shopping for a new tone now i actually need a pre

caeman · #18 11-05-2011, 05:46 AM

You could always remove the amp head from the Roland's case. Or remove the speaker to get rid of weight.

Rocksolid · #19 11-05-2011, 06:08 AM

I got a Presonus Studio Channel 2nd hand and I have been very happy with it. The eq and comp along with a pre all in 1RU is great. I use mine to drive a powered monitor (Yamaha MSR400) and it gives it more than enough level with the pre output on half. I primarily purchased this pre to use in an IEM rig but i would be more than happy to use it with a powered monitor alone for bar gigs. This setup has heaps of great bottom end - some rooms I even have to kick in the high pass filter!

I have an ART Studio MP also which lives on my pedal board and that seems to have heaps of signal to run my powered monitor also.

If you use no other pedals I would get a rack pre. If you do use pedals then it probably doesn't matter either way.

TL5 · #20 11-05-2011, 06:46 AM

I use a Tech 21 VT bass for the tone shaping into an inexpensive M-Audio mic pre-amp to give the added un-colored boost for my yamaha poweramp.

I have also used the previously mentioned ART Tube MP (or Studio MP, I have both). I put the M-Audio in the rack with my poweramp. The ART took up too much real estate on my pedalboard.