Pro audio processors for bass?

[doomdude]

I've been wondering...is there any of you effect gurus out there that use the pro audio processors as effects? I've never seen any used on all the effect porno on here, but it would be interesting to see if anyone does use pro rack gear, OR why no-one uses it .

I've recently been considering getting the TC M350 and a midi controller to hook up to the FX loop of my SansAmp BDDI deluxe. I was planning to use the flanger and choruses on it, save me some money on buying a few different individual units that I won't need very often. I thought that this way, I can have different presets within different effects for different songs, save me fiddling about in the dark to change my setting.

If I'm totally wrong, could I get some suggestions on some nice chorus and flanger pedals?

Be good to see what you guys think!

[edwinhurwitz]

I used Lexicon LXP. Units back in the day with an MRC and loved them. Eventually I went to the MPX G2, which was also great until it died a horrible irrepairable death. My next and current rack unit is an Eventide Eclipse. Lots of fun, but my right analog out died so I got an M13 to tide me over. I look forward to using them both.

[staindbass]

tough question. some people consider behringer and presonus pro equipment.

[chessrocks]

Once you start incorporating multi-band distortion and side-chain compression in your pedals, complete with metering and full control over attack/release envelopes .... then you're essentially incorporating "pro audio" (if there is such a thing anymore) processors in to your effects arsenal.

And once you get to that point, I think one needs to ask ... is playing bass truly your passion, or is it audio engineering?

And if your bass tone or technique ... are that bad to where you need rescue jobs like sidechain compression among your pedals, then you might very well consider a different passion. No offense to guys like Boomer, of course (who make great equipment).

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by chessrocks

Once you start incorporating multi-band distortion and side-chain compression in your pedals, complete with metering and full control over attack/release envelopes .... then you're essentially incorporating "pro audio" (if there is such a thing anymore) processors in to your effects arsenal.

And once you get to that point, I think one needs to ask ... is playing bass truly your passion, or is it audio engineering?

And if your bass tone or technique ... are that bad to where you need rescue jobs like sidechain compression among your pedals, then you might very well consider a different passion. No offense to guys like Boomer, of course (who make great equipment).

I disagree with your premise. I think it's quite possible to be a passionate bassist and have an intense interest in things considered to be in the realm of audio engineering. After all, we see bassists with crazy stomp box setups, which are really ultimately no different. I don't see this stuff as a rescue job, as I can run my gear flat and the FOH engineer just runs the bass channel flat for an excellent bass sound. That part is all in the fingers. As you say, there are cheaper and easier ways to get a good basic tone.

If I were to use a sidechain setup, it might not even be for compression, but for ducking delays or maybe even converting pitch to control voltages which could be mapped to LFOs so that a flanger could go faster the higher up I go on the neck. At that point, though, I'd do the whole thing on a laptop. The SoundToys effects are awesome for strange experiments like that.

[recnsci]

Originally Posted by chessrocks

Once you start incorporating multi-band distortion and side-chain compression in your pedals, complete with metering and full control over attack/release envelopes .... then you're essentially incorporating "pro audio" (if there is such a thing anymore) processors in to your effects arsenal.
And once you get to that point, I think one needs to ask ... is playing bass truly your passion, or is it audio engineering?

So, if I buy MXR M87 and Source Audio Multiband Dist, I should think about quitting bass playing?
BTW1, "pro audio processors" usually mean something like Eventide H8000, not EL Distressor or EL Lil-Freq.
BTW2, "sidechain compression" (what ever you actually mean by that) is not crutch. Not by a long shot. In any meaning of "SC Comp" I can think of.
BTW3, I would rather have H8000, Distressor and Lil-Freq than any sane combination of pedals. Only, I don't have $9000 to throw on gear, and don't really like idea of hauling around 4U rack.

...
To OP: studio type rack FX tend to be expensive, and a bit (or a bit more) intimidating to average bass player, usually don't provide "instant gratification" to player/user and need most of the time additional care regarding level matching and stuff like that. I think those are main reasons you don't see more of studio grade stuff in bass player arsenals.

[ga_edwards]

Define 'pro'.

To me that means any equipment used by professionals in a professional environment. To that end I've seen inexpensive equipment used by professional musicians to get the sound they want. And by professional musician, I mean someone who earns a living as a musician.

[doomdude]

By pro audio, I mean things that an engineer would use, studio stuff etc. When considering buying effects, especially expensive ones, then surely studio quality stuff rack gear comes into the decision...I just rarely see it in rigs.

I'm 16, I can't afford much, and I have a little bit of studio/live engineering experience, hence my knowledge of them, and curiosity at being able to incorporate them into a rig. Could I use something like the Tech21 midi mouse to change and recall presets on a rack processor, such as the TC electronic M350 or the Lexicon MX200?

[chessrocks]

You can certainly do whatever you feel like doing, doom.

I would just ask yourself how practical it is. If you have the ability to transport it wherever you are playing, and you have the means to protect it and keep it safe from damage and/or theft ... and you don't mind the multi-tasking with it, then nothing should stop you from doing what you feel like doing to get the sound you want. Whether that means incorporating pedals in to your racks ... or incorporating your racks in to your bass rig.

I'm an audio engineer who also plays bass. And my approach has always been that I bring my racks when I'm doing sound ... and I bring my bass when I'm playing bass. I don't try to do the bass player's job when I'm doing sound ... and I'm sure it's not appreciated when I try to do the sound guy's job when I'm supposed to be playing.

.. Nor do I think I'm very effective and at my best when I try to do both simultaneously. But that's just my approach. To anyone who took my last post seriously, keep in mind it's just one guys' take. Everyone is different, their situations are different and their approaches are different.

But when it comes to audio, the only truly hard and fast rule ... is that there are no rules. Especially when you're in the studio.

[recnsci]

Originally Posted by doomdude

Could I use something like the Tech21 midi mouse to change and recall presets on a rack processor, such as the TC electronic M350 or the Lexicon MX200?

If unit accepts Program Change MIDI message, yes you can. And you should also consider this (it's about the same price as midi mouse)

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by chessrocks

But when it comes to audio, the only truly hard and fast rule ... is that there are no rules.

+1M!

[chessrocks]

Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz

+1M!

Except for maybe plugging the speaker output of your power amp in to the line input of your effects pedal or your mixer.

But other than that ...

[bassbrad]

In the recent past there was a large gap in quality between rack gear and stomp box effects, but that is far from the case these days. There are many stomp boxes that rival studio gear and are in most cases more economical, portable, user friendly and rugged.
I have used rack mount gear live in the past but in the long run it does not hold up well at all to the rigors of gigging for the average musician, so now I use the rack gear in the studio.

[doomdude]

Awesome guys, thanks for all the responses! I think I might go with some individual flanger and chorus pedals based on what all of you are saying. None of you could recommend any particular models or point me in the direction of some threads discussing them? Cheers!

[kaputsport]

I use the Electrix Filter Factory, Warp Factory and Mo-FX in my rack. I want to add a few other things, like a Sansamp PSA 1.1 and possibly a G-Major.

[dairyman3833]

Originally Posted by doomdude

By pro audio, I mean things that an engineer would use, studio stuff etc. When considering buying effects, especially expensive ones, then surely studio quality stuff rack gear comes into the decision...I just rarely see it in rigs.

I'm 16, I can't afford much, and I have a little bit of studio/live engineering experience, hence my knowledge of them, and curiosity at being able to incorporate them into a rig. Could I use something like the Tech21 midi mouse to change and recall presets on a rack processor, such as the TC electronic M350 or the Lexicon MX200?

Well Dude...I was just hollering at some other youg buck on here about compression pedals. They almost always make your sound worse! Expecially from a pro-audio stand point. BTW I own and run ASS-SHakerS EnT/Decible 10 Studio. Usually have to cut those pedals out of the chain to get the bass to sit in the mix better. And I will almost always use the UAD La3a to get in the mix and to make room.
Same thing with live(different settings but sounds great)
or switch to the 1176. It is important for larger venues in particular to have all the notes come through the mix, even your softer notes. So using a compressor live is still very important(less so at smaller venues). Other wise the bass will be swallowed up by drums, guitars, and vox. By not having good quality compression on your bass this will happen even if your eq'ing is top notch. Less so of course but on softer notes you won't be able to hear them! And for good quality compression you can expect to pay upward of $1300. I recomend UAD-La3a first, then the 1176 then DBX 160.
SPL also makes a great tool to have your bass cut through the mix it's the Vitalizer. It takes your eq that's already there and trims it/adds a little saturation and BAMM. Huge tone!