roland vg99 with bass guitar?

[foge]

Does anyone know if the vg99 works with a bass guitar with the hexaphonic pickup??
I am interested in the best tracking synth for a bass, I simply want a big multi osc sawtooth patch to play from my bass, the tracking must be amazing, the vg99 looks like it could be great if it works with the bass guitar note range.
geoff

[greenboy]

It doesn't work with GK2B or GK-3B pickups and as I recall the scale length parameter does not go long enough. Many things on the VG-99 are optimized for guitar tonal distribution, string tensions, etc, as well.

[fokof]

Roland is probably gonna get something for us , bass player , anytime soon now.

It's been what , 5 years since the V-Bass ?

[Swimming Bird]

If you're interested in a GK pickup but only want synth sounds, just get a Boss WP-20G.

[SteveFromBerlin]

Hey guys,

last week I went to a music store down here in Berlin/Germany and plucked the 13-pin cable into my GK-3B and guess what: It totally blew my mind! The tracking was so F%&§ing great - I was immediately convinced to sell my Terratec Axon AX100! (Even in the lower regions of a 5th string!)

I contacted the German RolandSupport and they told me, that they do not know anything about a VG-99 for Bass.
But the dude from the Guitarstore said it would just be a question of time - of course he doesn't know anything in detail.

Now I am thinking about buying the guitar-version. I suppose that a new V-Bass will only be a new software update to the VG-99.

What do you think?

And what do you think will be in there? I could imagine a warm sounding double bass, all the standards like Fender, MM, etc. - but what can they build in that's really new and advancing for us?

[elros]

Well.

The GR-99 is basically a double GR-88, sort of, and with added MIDI conversion (like a built-in GI-20) in a table-top box.
I would imagine that a V-Bass version of the 99 would have the dual engine (2x V-Bass) as well, and the MIDI thing too. That would let me replace my huge pedal board which contains a V-Bass and a GR-20, with just that one unit and perhaps a MIDI sound module of my choice (probably the Nord MicroModular). That would be fantastic.

[SteveFromBerlin]

Any chances on the Namm? It's been a year now since the guitar VG-99 came out.

[elros]

I would think that a bass version could use the same hardware as the current VG-99. It has two XLR DI outputs and otherwise all the hardware stuff I would want on a bass version.
So perhaps we'll see a bass version at NAMM. I sure hope so.

[elros]

Originally Posted by SteveFromBerlin

Hey guys,

last week I went to a music store down here in Berlin/Germany and plucked the 13-pin cable into my GK-3B and guess what: It totally blew my mind! The tracking was so F%&§ing great - I was immediately convinced to sell my Terratec Axon AX100! (Even in the lower regions of a 5th string!)

I contacted the German RolandSupport and they told me, that they do not know anything about a VG-99 for Bass.
But the dude from the Guitarstore said it would just be a question of time - of course he doesn't know anything in detail.

Now I am thinking about buying the guitar-version. I suppose that a new V-Bass will only be a new software update to the VG-99.

What do you think?

And what do you think will be in there? I could imagine a warm sounding double bass, all the standards like Fender, MM, etc. - but what can they build in that's really new and advancing for us?

Well. The tracking you experienced would be the tracking of the V-Guitar system, which is very much like the V-Bass system. And this is not a MIDI synth system - it is a modeling system which uses the signal from your instrument as a basis for sound modeling.
While the VG-99 does have the MIDI note-tracking system built in, it doesn't have an on-board MIDI sound generator. Here's what the product page says:

Guitar to MIDI converter for direct connection to keyboards, sound modules, soft synths, computers, and other MIDI-compatible devices

Ergo (assiuming I'm right) you would probably be even more happy with a good old V-Bass unit. I'm very happy with mine!

[SteveFromBerlin]

That's 4 sure - an old V-Bass would also make me happy, but the two engines in the VG-99 plus the software editor are already two new functions that I think I would make heavy use of. Maybe also the D-Beam but that depends on the musical direction.

I'm hoping all the best for the Namm - already began selling old equipment to be able to have the money right... here in Germany the products often are more expensive than in the US.

[pjmuck]

I really wish that Roland would combine their VG architecture with their GR architecture and/or offer a rackmount version of both. I play rhythm guitar in addition to bass, and recently picked up a GK3 PUP after already owning a GR-33 (which I keep in my guitar rack and control with a Ground Control midi foot controller). I was disappointed to find that the GK3 is not compatible with the GR-33, which means I either have to now buy the "dumbed" down GR-20 or get an Axon. I was surprisingly happy with the tracking when I used the GR-33 midi out to slave some Reason sounds off my Powerbook with my guitar, so if the midi out tracking on the GR-20 is at least as fast as it is on the GR-33 (at least as far as guitar goes) then I might take the plunge. As for bass, has anyone any experience using a GK2 or GK3 PUP with the GR-20 midi out to control outboard synths?

[elros]

What?? The GK-3 guitar pickup should work perfectly with the GR-33. It is, after all, built after the same GK standard.
Something must be wrong somewhere. Does that same GK-3 pickup work with another GK unit?

Anyway, I have some experience using the GK-2B together with the GR-20. But I do not often hook it up to external MIDI sound sources. It seems to work best with the internal sound generator, I think this is because the MIDI signal generated from bass playing is a bit odd in certain ways - the dynamics are a bit strange and pitch bend is handeled differently depending on the patch.

If you want rack mount stuff perhaps you should check out the GI-20.

[pjmuck]

Elros, sorry I should have been specific. Roland confirmed to me that the GR-33 is not really compatible with the GK3B. It works fine with the GK3 guitar PUP. I have tried using the GK3B with the GR-33, and while the tracking is decent above the 12th fret it totally flips out below that and is completely incapable of recognizing pitch regardless of how I set up the GR-33 sensitivity and play settings. I mentioned this in another thread, but I still need to get to GC to try out the GR-20 unit they had.

Regarding the GI-20, I've heard that the Axon units work better for controlling outboard midi gear, though as stated I had no problems controlling Reason with the GR-33 (using my guitar though, not bass). I've actually heard that while the Axon offers noticeably better tracking than the Roland gear, that there is no discernible tracking difference between using a GK PUP with the Axon vs. using an instrument with hexaphonic saddles. It's hard for me to know what the truth is, as I've had very good luck on guitar using a Godin LGXSA with built-in saddles and a Strat fitted with a GK PUP, with very little discernible tracking difference through my GR-33 unit. But bass, I just don't know, and it's not like the local GC or Sam Ash has an Axon or GI-20 to set up and try out.

[elros]

Oh yes, that makes more sense.
That's right, the old GR-33 doesn't like the bass range.
The GR-20 works quite well though, as I've probably said before.
And, like you, I would like to try out the Axon unit, to see if it's as fantastic as some say.

[fokof]

I really want to try the VG99 bass.

I spoke to Roland rep at the Jazz fest in Montreal , I was asking about VBass and bass to MIDI ideas I had and he told me that Roland is on something big for bass . He could not tell me what or when but I keep high hopes.I figure it's the VG99 for bass.....

I tried the Pitch to MIDI thing with my bass. I installed the Graph tech piezo kit. The latency is unbearable. I tried a GI20 (mine) and an Axon.
It's not true that the Axon is alot better than the Roland. They both are very bad for bass. The Axon was like 20 samples faster than the Roland at 48khz when I tested it on my CPU. It's like 1/1000th of a second. Nothing a living human being can tell.

I had the occasion to plug my 13 pin in a VG8 just to see what the tracking looks like and it is night and day compared to pitch to MIDI.
I really hope they are gonna put more bass synth modeling sounds.

I already bought a FC300 to control the VG99bass.I also use it for my sampler on the CPU.

Anybody wants to buy a GI20 ? Like new, been used 3 hours....

[SteveFromBerlin]

That's what I'm talking about!

Good to hear those information from you...

Yeah with midi it is a thing - I owned a Yamaha G-50, an Axon USB50 und now the AX100 and what can I say? The Axon has way better tracking than the old Yamaha; less glitches and more "right" notes but it is hard and takes a long time to get the settings right. I think it works well and maybe even a little better if you have that piezo under the bridge. But only when playing very very clear and accurate - there is also a difference if you play with a pic because that it is even better.

It depends very much on what you are planning to do with it: If you want to do Padsounds and Melodys that are in a higher range and played very clearly it works good, but as for me - I wanna do SynthBass and Electro D&B-kind combined with my natural sound - that means playing lines in the lower region and needing a tracking like the V-Bass and VG-99 have!

[elros]

You know, I spent some time on the Axon forum, because I wanted to find out if the Axon was that much better for bass compared to the Roland GR-20. This is what I found (without actually trying an Axon unit):
The Axon has this "neural network" technology which is supposed to learn your playing style and thus provide more accurate tracking. However, it does this by analyzing the transient in the pick attack which is all right with guitar players as most use a pick, but without the pick the Axon is pretty much the same tracking as the Roland gear. This make sense to me.
So, as I play mostly fingerstyle I bought the Roland GR-20; also because it was cheaper and more easily available. And the GR-20 works quite well. There is some latency on the low notes, yes, and I think this is pretty much unaviodable (unless you can use a pick and make the Axon pick transient analyzing neural network thing technology work for the lowest bass notes) due to the nature of bass notes. This also makes sense to me. But, knowing this, I think the GR-20 does a good job. And, although I have posted this many times before, here are some sound clips from the GR-20.

I don't use the GR-20 MIDI sounds for fast groovy bass lines, for this I use the V-Bass which has no latency anywhere. The GR-20 is for the "other stuff" such as melodies, chords and such; things which does not die if a note is delayed by one ms or two, and which are played in the higher register anyway.

[pjmuck]

Originally Posted by elros

So, as I play mostly fingerstyle I bought the Roland GR-20; also because it was cheaper and more easily available. And the GR-20 works quite well. There is some latency on the low notes, yes, and I think this is pretty much unaviodable (unless you can use a pick and make the Axon pick transient analyzing neural network thing technology work for the lowest bass notes) due to the nature of bass notes. This also makes sense to me. But, knowing this, I think the GR-20 does a good job. And, although I have posted this many times before, here are some sound clips from the GR-20.

Interesting and informative clips, Elros, thanks. Right off the bat, I like the GR-20 harmonica and trombone sounds better than my GR-33. I do notice the latency most on your harmonica sample, though in a way it's cool because it sounds like someone accompanying you rather than a perfect note for not match. Also, as you mentioned, latency can vary depending on the patch (pianos have the worst latency on my GR-33 with my guitar). But when you say that latency is worst on lower notes, what range are you noticing it? (Open E and below, or A and below, for example?). You mention you're primarily a fingerstyle player, and so am I. I'm remembering now in discussions that when players were comparing the Roland units to the Axons that the one caveat with Axon was that players thought that the Roland units responded better to fingerstyle guitar playing (I'm assuming because you can fine tune the play settings (i.e. normal, fingerstyle, tapping, etc). As I'm not familiar with the GR-20 yet, can you fine tune playability settings like the GR-33? Also, can you assign different patches to each string like the GR-33 (or combine 2 patches to a string?). The one thing I do like about the Axon units is the ability to split the fretboard up.

"I tried the Pitch to MIDI thing with my bass. I installed the Graph tech piezo kit. The latency is unbearable. I tried a GI20 (mine) and an Axon."

Phew. Glad I didn't go to the expense of installing Graphtech piezos then.

"If you want to do Padsounds and Melodys that are in a higher range and played very clearly it works good, but as for me - I wanna do SynthBass and Electro D&B-kind combined with my natural sound - that means playing lines in the lower region and needing a tracking like the V-Bass and VG-99 have!"

That's what I'm looking to do as well. I agree that a new VG99 bass unit with a LOT of synth patches would be the way to go. or, at the very least, Line 6 Variax units should be increasing their library of sounds.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by pjmuck

Phew. Glad I didn't go to the expense of installing Graphtech piezos then.

A piezo pickup has nothing to do with latency.

What I meant ( maybe I wasn't clear ) is that the latency induced by the Roland GI20 or the Axon AX50 is unbearable. I was talking about pitch to MIDI as opposed to V-bass's modeling
Any piezo is instantenious. Like a magnetic pickup.

BTW ; I also have a RMC kit , and I much prefer the sound of the Graphtech. Also alot easier to install .

[fokof]

Hummmmmmmm.....smells good.....

Last time I checked on the US Roland site , the VG guitar stuff was on a different page than the bass stuff.......

Something is cooking down there....