SansAmp BDDI: Give it sufficient "familiarization time"

craig.p · #1 07-09-2010, 05:29 PM

Sorry if this has been said a thousand times before in this forum, but after spending about five minutes trying to dial in a new BDDI running straight into the power amp section of my ancient Carvin head, I was ready to throw the damn thing out the window and onto the driveway. It sounded WAY too dynamic, with WAY too much bass and treble and liveliness and immediacy and... way too much "everything," if that makes any sense. My bass had lost its flat, even, backline sound, and had suddenly become strictly a solo instrument that wouldn't have a prayer of blending into a "polite" mix.

So I shook my head and walked downstairs and grabbed a Coke, and while drinking it, I started thinking that there's GOT to be a reason people are buying these things. I've GOT to be doing something wrong. So, I went back upstairs just now and, to try to reclaim my instrument's natural sound, I started seriously cutting instead of mildly boosting. Yes, I'd tried cutting before, but not to the extent I went to this time. Cut this, cut that, cut cut cut. I wound up with...

Blend: full on
Treble: full off
Presence: 10:30
Bass: 9:30
Drive: 10:00

...and WOW, my bass has never sounded better in the 30+ years I've owned it. Its basic characteristics are preserved, but they're enhanced now. I don't know how to describe it, but now my bass has more of what I've always liked about it. There's a feeling of added "tone thickness" but without any loss of dynamics, i.e. no "compressor feel." To say I'm hooked would be an understatement.

I can't believe I was about to sling this thing down onto the asphalt. Yikes.

And so, if you just bought one, give it time, be patient, and don't be afraid to try settings that might initially appear extreme and/or make no sense whatsoever, relative to equipment you've worked with before.

I hope this helps someone else who might be frustrated at first with a new BDDI. And again, sorry if this repeats what's already been mentioned elsewhere.

**Staccato** · #2 07-09-2010, 05:37 PM

Thanks for the suggestions.

Here's comments from others on a previous post.

mavbass · #3 07-09-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig.p

Blend: full on
Treble: full off
Presence: 10:30
Bass: 9:30
Drive: 10:00

.

Those settings look completely useless for a live setting!
Treble is going to help you cut throught the mix.
Try setting everything flat "12 o'clock" including the blend. The blend is were your sound is hiding so turn it down!

craig.p · #4 07-09-2010, 07:49 PM

Thanks for your suggestions, but the settings you suggest are exactly what the unit was shipped with and so that's what I tried first. The sound was way off, and I mean WAY off. It was hot and aggressive and forward -- 180 out from what I need.

Should be fine in a live setting. I've been doing this a while and I know what works for the music I play. I may dial up the bass a little, but nothing more. You're right, treble would help me cut through the mix, but I don't want to cut through the mix. I want to fill a predetermined frequency slot and not spill over into adjacent (and occupied) slots.

I might take your advice on the blend knob, but the problem is that things sound so sweet with it up full (no dry mix -- pure effect) that it'd be like going through BDDI withdrawl!

craig.p · #5 07-09-2010, 07:59 PM

I should add that much of the disagreement on the treble control is probably due to the fact that I'm running my pickup straight to the jack, without the resistive load (and HF rolloff) that a potentiometer would impose. Sorry, should've stated that earlier.

Ayliffe · #6 07-10-2010, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavbass

Those settings look completely useless for a live setting!
Treble is going to help you cut throught the mix.
Try setting everything flat "12 o'clock" including the blend. The blend is were your sound is hiding so turn it down!

Actually mids cut through the mix, and with these settings he is boosting his mids considerably.

craig.p · #7 07-10-2010, 06:15 AM

One thing that quickly became apparent with the BDDI is that "straight up on everything" doesn't feel at all "flat." Strangely, the settings I mentioned above mimic the tone my bass produces when run direct into the Carvin's front-panel "low" jack -- which is a low-gain input -- with the EQ set flat except for maybe a 3dB up-shelf down in the bass region. (The amp has no other tone controls.) I suspect, though again can not prove, that the BDDI's input impedance is significantly higher than that of the Carvin's "low" input. Decades ago I experimented with custom input stages, using everything from bipolars to J-FETs to op-amps, and one thing I learned is that first-stage input impedance and even device class can have major effects on an instrument's sound -- at least on a passive one's, whose output impedance can be way higher than that of an active bass. I mention this because I may simply have gotten used to the sound of the Carvin using its "low" input and its (perhaps) tougher load, and in the back of my mind labeled that sound "reference."

There's another factor at work. My 1x15 cab is on the floor and close to a wall. But it gets worse: that wall goes from 90º to 45º halfway up (salt box roofline). So there's significant boundary reinforcement, not to mention loss of mids from the cab not being even close to ear level. (Yeah, standing waves and response irregularities, too; I know that.) To Ayliffe's point, then, yes, if I put my ear close to the driver, it is a somewhat "middy" sound. He's absolutely right. But out in the room, the sound is not "middy," and that's the acid test.

Anyway, my main point of this thread was to encourage people who don't get some immediate BDDI swoon to keep experimenting AND to try settings that might initially not make much sense in light of prior experience. I hope I didn't come off as suggesting everyone end up with the BDDI settings I personally prefer.

Implosion · #8 07-10-2010, 06:29 AM

Straight up on everything doesn't indeed feel flat because it isn't. It's scooped and the more you turn the blend the stronger the scoop becomes. With your settings you are getting a bump in the mids.

craig.p · #9 07-10-2010, 06:48 AM

Yep, that makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Things are starting to line up now. More fine-tuning later today. I'm amazed at the sounds I can get out of this thing.

Kawai-chang · #10 07-10-2010, 07:15 AM

Hmmm, if I may...according to my SABDDI manual, the mids are preset at 750 Hz, and with the B/T set @ 12:00 the relative EQ is flat. At least that's how I'm reading it.

Kawai-chang · #11 07-10-2010, 07:17 AM

I also use the SABDDI into a power amp as my rig. I agree it takes some knob twisting to get "THE" tone you want. I've used all kids of different settings on mine. the great part is, all you need to do is tweak it, and there's a good tone.

BassMonstrum · #12 07-10-2010, 08:19 AM

Yeah, I've been considering feeding my BDDI straight to my GK1001rb-II's poweramp. That is actually why I bought the amp, 'cause I wanted something loud and clean due to the fact that my board is my sound. That way, if I use someone else's rig I still get MY sound.

The problem was that I never got a decent tone when using the Sansamp as the main pre-amp, but I'll be sure to give the OP's settings a try next time!

Planet Boulder · #13 07-10-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Implosion

Straight up on everything doesn't indeed feel flat because it isn't. It's scooped and the more you turn the blend the stronger the scoop becomes. With your settings you are getting a bump in the mids.

perhaps I am misunderstanding but, if dialing up the blend scoops the mids (and I agree that it does), how would he be getting a bump in the mids at that setting with the blend turned all the way up?

While I agree that a cut of either the bass or treble knobs, relative to one another, provides an offsetting mid boost, I would submit that having the blend turned all the way up provides a net mid scoop.

Planet Boulder · #14 07-10-2010, 08:30 AM

By the way, for those of you who are running the BDDI directly into your power amp section, are you actually able to drive the power amp enough with it? I was never able to adequately do so (The VT Bass is another story altogether, though).

Swift713 · #15 07-10-2010, 08:40 AM

Dialing up the blend increases the eq vs bypass tone. Whether the eq is set for hump or scoop it will be more pronounced as you turn up the blend. With the blend knob the other way the tone controls have no effect on your signal.
There has been ample discussion of the inherent mid scoop (@~ 750hz) of the BDDI when set "flat." It's meant to emulate an 8x10 cabinet. To dial that out you can turn down the bass and treble, or the blend.
Lots of people love this pedal, lots of people hate it. I personally don't get along with the Ampeg style tone stack and find myself fighting it.
Anyway, I'm learning that most pedals require plenty of familiarization time: exploration, honeymoon, disenchantment, rediscovery, etc. It can take weeks, months, sometimes years.

craig.p · #16 07-10-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

By the way, for those of you who are running the BDDI directly into your power amp section, are you actually able to drive the power amp enough with it?

I think I read somewhere that the BDDI does best with amps with high-ish input sensitivities. By that I'm guessing less than a volt. You might be able to chase that down with a search here or on the Web. There do seem to be lots of people driving power amps successfully, though.

I can say that it easily drives the power amp section of this Carvin head. In fact it's almost too much. But that's just one data point, and probably not representative of typical modern power amps.

Implosion · #17 07-11-2010, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawai-chang

Hmmm, if I may...according to my SABDDI manual, the mids are preset at 750 Hz, and with the B/T set @ 12:00 the relative EQ is flat. At least that's how I'm reading it.

The mids are fixed and preset at 750 Hz, but voicing of the BDDI has a mid-scoop when everything is set "flat". That is just how it is designed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planet Boulder

perhaps I am misunderstanding but, if dialing up the blend scoops the mids (and I agree that it does), how would he be getting a bump in the mids at that setting with the blend turned all the way up?

While I agree that a cut of either the bass or treble knobs, relative to one another, provides an offsetting mid boost, I would submit that having the blend turned all the way up provides a net mid scoop.

Of course a lot of it depends on the rest of the gear used in the signal chain. But in my experience the 12 dB cut available from the bass and treble controls surpasses the blend control's "scooping ability" even if it is maxed. Results may naturally vary depending on other gear used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planet Boulder

By the way, for those of you who are running the BDDI directly into your power amp section, are you actually able to drive the power amp enough with it? I was never able to adequately do so (The VT Bass is another story altogether, though).

Did you have the older version of the BDDI. The newer version (actually it is not that new anymore) has got a switch from where you can select the output between instrument and line level. In line level mode the BDDI drives a power amp very well. That is how I do it.

The older version:

The newer version:

Planet Boulder · #18 07-11-2010, 09:23 AM

That explains it, then, as I have the old version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Implosion

The mids are fixed and preset at 750 Hz, but voicing of the BDDI has a mid-scoop when everything is set "flat". That is just how it is designed.

Of course a lot of it depends on the rest of the gear used in the signal chain. But in my experience the 12 dB cut available from the bass and treble controls surpasses the blend control's "scooping ability" even if it is maxed. Results may naturally vary depending on other gear used.

Did you have the older version of the BDDI. The newer version (actually it is not that new anymore) has got a switch from where you can select the output between instrument and line level. In line level mode the BDDI drives a power amp very well. That is how I do it.

The older version:

The newer version:

**Staccato** · #19 07-11-2010, 09:36 AM

Pages 3-4 of the manual list recommended settings (bassman, full range clean, etc.) as a starting point...

The factory website refers to the two versions as V1, and V2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift713

Anyway, I'm learning that most pedals require plenty of familiarization time: exploration, honeymoon, disenchantment, rediscovery, etc. It can take weeks, months, sometimes years.

+1

Ski3223 · #20 07-11-2010, 10:12 AM

I want one of these bad boys so bad, but I'm not gigging a lot right now. I know a DI box is an essential for most people that are gigging at LEAST as a back up. A church band I fill in for on bass/drums uses one of the 3way switchers for the bass and it's great! They are a little out of my price range without NEEDING it in my immediate future. Anyone know where I can get one of these under $100?