SansAmp PBDDI flatulence

scottfeldstein · #1 08-14-2011, 09:26 AM

I just got my new SansAmp Programmable Bass Driver DI yesterday and I've been messing around with it in the apartment at low volume. What's giving me fits is that I can't seem to turn the Drive past noon or my E string starts farting. Here's the setup:

Soundgear SR300. Passive pickups, but it does take a battery to drive the "tone sweeper" circuit. The battery is fresh.

TCE PolyTune pedal tuner

SansAmp

GK MB500 (using the effects return as an input, bypassing the preamp and the EQ)

GK Neo 212-II cab

I've tried a lot of setting combinations on the SansAmp. But no matter what I still seem to get a farty sound out of the E string the second I put the Drive knob past noon. Even at low volume. Even with its EQ at noon on bass/treble. Even with the Level set to match the bypass level. Blend is maxed. Presence at noon.

J-O · #2 08-14-2011, 09:54 AM

When you say "farty", are you referring to tube style grit/break up? If so, that sounds like what it's supposed to do. I used a BDDI for years before I got my Ampeg, and always had that drive well past noon to get some nice grit/overdrive. The overdrive you can get with that pedal is one of it's best features.

chessrocks · #3 08-14-2011, 09:56 AM

In short, the bass drivers and para drivers have a very exaggerated low end, and your farty E-string is most likely the result of this.

White noise tests I recently ran showed that, with everything at unity and drive at noon, the lower frequencies are up by almost a full 10 dbs, with the largest peak centered at 50hz (which in layman's terms means really really low).

And to cut through the technical mumbo-jumbo ... it's like Tech 21 decided to take the honors of cranking the bass knob up all the way for you. And in many situations, this could very well be the cause of a "farty E string." A simple test would be turning the bass knob up and down, and seeing if the fartiness increases/decreases along with it.

When I brought this to the attention of Tech21's product manager ... I received this exact, word-for-word reply (email):

"This is normal."

And just so you know, this really shouldn't be normal, but in the world of the sansamp, a very heavily exaggerated bass and scooped mids are their way of replicating "that classic Ampeg tone" they are going for. And with that said, the Sansamp is still a very useful pedal, and does a convincing job of replicating the sound of a classic tube amp (with the bass turned all the way up) ... so you take the good with the bad, I suppose.

scottfeldstein · #4 08-14-2011, 10:06 AM

To me it sounds very much like a blown speaker or a clipping amp. Not the tubey sizzle I'm after.

I have noticed that it is very mid-scoopy. I've decided just to go with it for the most part. But turning its Bass control up and down does NOT seem to have any effect on the degree of distortion I'm referring to above.

chessrocks · #5 08-14-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

But turning its Bass control up and down does NOT seem to have any effect on the degree of distortion I'm referring to above.

How about the drive?

scottfeldstein · #6 08-14-2011, 10:11 AM

Yes, turning the drive up and down definitely has an effect on the sound I'm describing. Drive at noon, sizzle. Drive past noon, fart city.

chessrocks · #7 08-14-2011, 10:12 AM

Looks like you just solved your own problem, then.

By the way, the problem is probably that your E-string just has a lot of energy and is disproportionately engaging the bass driver's drive, which is pretty normal.

If you stick your compressor in front of your BDDI, that could help even things out so your E-string isn't so much louder than the others, and you can get a more "even" sizzle when you find that sweet spot on the drive control.

scottfeldstein · #8 08-14-2011, 10:20 AM

It could just be I'm learning the natural parameters of this unit. Looking at the manual, all the settings that involve Drive past noon are meant to be seriously overdriven. And it could just be that this sound is not for me. I just wanted to make sure I couldn't get more out of the Drive control without that particular sound. Like if it was an artifact of how I have everything else set up...

In other news, I really wish there was a way to block users who are reliably rude and/or unhelpful.

J-O · #9 08-14-2011, 10:35 AM

Yeah, pretty much anytime you turn the drive past noon you are get to get some break up. It will also respond to your attack, hit the string harder and you'll get more grit. The overdrive does sound a bit muffled when it's barely kicking in, it has more clarity if you crank it up a bit. I used to use mine with the.drive knob set between 2-3 o'clock. That being said, I like some dirt in my tone.

You can minimize the mid scoop by bumping up the mids on your amp and blending in more of your clean signal. Give it some time, play around with your eq and the clean blend. There are lots of the threads in this forum with helpful info on making the most of the BDDI.

scottfeldstein · #10 08-14-2011, 10:44 AM

It could be that the dynamics of this change when playing at volume. That is, Drive at noon could be a lot more tubey to my ear when playing at drummer-matching volume than it does in don't-piss-off-the-neighbor volume. In which case, I wouldn't really need to turn it up more than noon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-O

You can minimize the mid scoop by bumping up the mids on your amp

I could do--if I ran my pedal board into the instrument input of my amp. Going in through the effect return bypasses both the epreamp and the eq. I'm worried that two preamps in the chain might produce nasty effects at higher volume. That's another experiment I need to run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-O

There are lots of the threads in this forum with helpful info on making the most of the BDDI.

Sure are! I've got this one bookmarked.

Sansamp settings: Share your favorites?

chessrocks · #11 08-14-2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

In other news, I really wish there was a way to block users who are reliably rude and/or unhelpful.

That's kind of a weird wish.

I would just like to see people happy making music and discussing it with each other.

But to each his own, I guess.

Good luck with your sansamp!

J-O · #12 08-14-2011, 02:21 PM

I wouldn't run the PBDDI through your effects loop. It is a preamp in pedal form. I think you'll have much better luck running it inline. I used mine like this for years and loved how it warmed up my solid state amp. Again, I think that finding a good balance with the blend knob is key to getting the most out of this pedal. Good luck!

scottfeldstein · #13 08-14-2011, 02:25 PM

Good point. I am not settled on running into the effects loop. I'd definitely like to run it into the instrument in, if only to get the EQ back into the signal. That way I might be able to put some mids back into it.

Everyone seems to run this thing at full blend. But maybe you're right. I don't have to do that.

IcosianBass · #14 08-15-2011, 12:42 AM

I run my PBDDI into my B2000. I first found a clean tone i liked with my amp then used the Sansamp to clean up the tone. by clean up i mean using my drive and blends and all that stuff to make my tone that much better. Also i know tech 21 says to probably keep the blend on full, I wouldn't do that. Roll it back to like 12 or 1 and then fiddle with the drive, bass and treble. also try running straight into the amp like a said before and use the EQ on it as well

tech21nyc · #15 08-15-2011, 10:29 AM

If you look at the EQ curves for the Tone Sweeper circuit in your bass, the "slapped" setting appears to be very scooped.Ibanez.com | Basses | SR300 This EQ combined with the EQ of the Bass Driver could be part of the problem. If you can bypass the circuit completely, try that first when using the Bass Driver.

As others have suggested reducing the drive is an easy fix. The other thing to try is turning up the presence control on the Bass Driver. This control increases upper harmonic content and attack like the presence control on many tube amps. Turn up the presence and then turn down the treble control to flatten your signal. The controls are very interactive. Don't be hesitant to use extreme settings. Also it helps to have fresh strings when using the Bass Driver with higher distortion settings.

scottfeldstein · #16 08-15-2011, 10:35 AM

I'll give those things a try, thanks!

scottfeldstein · #17 08-15-2011, 11:50 AM

Hm, I wonder if I could just take the battery out of the back of the bass to defeat the ToneSweeper...?

scottfeldstein · #18 08-15-2011, 05:31 PM

Alas, no. Removing the battery mutes the entire signal. At least I can keep it off the severely scooped end of the dial, which I usually do. I might try experimenting with keeping even more on toward the middy end.