SansAmp VT Bass Deluxe vs. Darkglass Microtubes B7K

amos · #1 11-27-2011, 04:46 AM

Hi EVeryone. I was pretty set on the Sansamp VT Bass Deluxe until I ran across a video of the Microtubes B3K bass overdrive, which is a stunningly amazing little pedal. Come to find out they have packaged it in the B7K as a preamp/DI pedal similar to the VT Bass. I know the VT Bass has some truly amazing tone shaping and speaker emulating features, but I was wondering if anyone on TB has any hands on experience with the Microtubes B7K . Thanks,

Amos

topo morto · #2 11-27-2011, 05:00 AM

I've not used the b3/7k (yet..?) But I'll chip in on the VT -

I much prefrered the small VT pedal to the deluxe. The preset thing on the deluxe is quite clunky and the controls don't work very smoothly. By contrast, the small VT is so easy to dial in that the presets are almost redundant. I also thought it was a bit less noisy.

Also, the speaker emulation is just a roll-off of the top end, no magic there.

amos · #3 11-27-2011, 07:02 AM

Thanks for the input. The VT interests me for the low-gain grit that I can add to my signal. If I can do the same thing with the B7K, I might be sold on it. It even has a parallel output which is something I would definitely take advantage of on the VT.

The B3k/B7k really seem like phenomenal units. I would love to find a place where I could try one out. Maybe I can convince one of the many shops here in Portland that stocks lots of pedals to order one in just to have in stock. My initial thought was to get the VT bass and the B3k, but now I am leaning towards the B7K, despite the steep price tag.

As a side note, I use the low-gain grit on my main tone, and blend in solid-state amp distortion from a guitar amp. I like to tell people never to do this because they will blow up their guitar amp. I only tell them this so they don't copy my tone :-P

amos · #4 11-27-2011, 07:03 AM

Now I just gotta figure out what cab to pair with this setup, either a 3-way 15/6/1 or a neo 4x10. But I'll save that convo for the amps forum!

topo morto · #5 11-27-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amos

Thanks for the input. The VT interests me for the low-gain grit that I can add to my signal.

using words to describe sounds is always a bit difficult, and maybe I'm reading too much into yoru choice of words, but I wouldn't desctibe the vt as adding 'grit' - i'd go for 'bloom and warmth', 'buzz', or 'clank', depending on where the character knob is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amos

As a side note, I use the low-gain grit on my main tone, and blend in solid-state amp distortion from a guitar amp. I like to tell people never to do this because they will blow up their guitar amp. I only tell them this so they don't copy my tone :-P

I've was actually messing with this kind of idea yesterday - using a one stompbox to distort the high end a lot, another to give a clean fat tone, and then mixing them together to get a sound that's bassy but cutting, without being a fuzz explosion... (second example in 'Machinery' bass sound - how to get it?)

alec · #6 11-27-2011, 04:06 PM

I have the VTD and B3K. While the B7K would be more versatile than the 3, I think the VT would give you a much wider range of sounds.
It depends if you want the VT's Ampeg-like warmth and bloom ranging to hard grind, or the more Marshally crunch of the BxK.

alec · #7 11-27-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topo morto

I much prefrered the small VT pedal to the deluxe. The preset thing on the deluxe is quite clunky and the controls don't work very smoothly. By contrast, the small VT is so easy to dial in that the presets are almost redundant. I also thought it was a bit less noisy..

I haven't used the regular VT, but I've never heard that before. I thought they were identical circuits?

What do you think is clunky about the presets? Because it's a double tap to set them? I know I sometimes don't time it right and my settings aren't saved.

topo morto · #8 11-27-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alec

I haven't used the regular VT, but I've never heard that before. I thought they were identical circuits?

What do you think is clunky about the presets? Because it's a double tap to set them? I know I sometimes don't time it right and my settings aren't saved.

The noise - unfortunately I didn't have them at the same time so couldn't compare accurately. Maybe there was just more RF in the air when I had the Deluxe.

The presets - It's not so much the saving / recall of the presets as the way the knobs work - on mine, the 'values' jumped in audible 'steps' rather than changed smoothly as you turned the knobs, and there's the obvious problem (unavoidable with non-continuous, non-motorised knobs) that as soon as you recall a preset, the knobs are in the wrong place, and have to jump to the right value as soon as you turn them (the volume and gain 'ramp' for safety i think).

I've used lots of digitally-controlled analogue gear made by small companies that felt better to use... the VT Deluxe just felt a little amateurish, IMO.

tech21nyc · #9 11-29-2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topo morto

...
Also, the speaker emulation is just a roll-off of the top end, no magic there.

It's actually a bit more than just a roll-off of top end. If that's all it was, in theory you could take any bass or guitar preamp/line out and dial out some high end at the board and make it sound like a mic'd speaker. That doesn't work. The speaker emulation was designed to give a full even response that is difficult to obtain with just a single mic.

The VT Bass Deluxe works best if you program the presets in advance rather than on the fly at a gig. You need to take a bit of time to get them tweaked. The "lazy pot" feature does take a little getting used to. The alternative would be motorized pots or separate LED displays for each control which would be very impractical in a pedal. It would have to be larger, heavier and obviously much more expensive.

topo morto · #10 11-29-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

It's actually a bit more than just a roll-off of top end. If that's all it was, in theory you could take any bass or guitar preamp/line out and dial out some high end at the board and make it sound like a mic'd speaker. That doesn't work. The speaker emulation was designed to give a full even response that is difficult to obtain with just a single mic.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought I was paraphrasing something you guys had said on TGP about the character pedals without the speaker sim switch (i.e., you don't really need the switch and you do the same with the EQ controls) but maybe I am getting old...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

The VT Bass Deluxe works best if you program the presets in advance rather than on the fly at a gig. You need to take a bit of time to get them tweaked. The "lazy pot" feature does take a little getting used to. The alternative would be motorized pots or separate LED displays for each control which would be very impractical in a pedal. It would have to be larger, heavier and obviously much more expensive.

The lazy pot feature is a thoughtful touch. What I was referring to was that on my unit, even once the knobs had 'achieved' their actual value,when moved they changed value in obvious steps, like a digital control with poor resolution...

ZanaZulu807 · #11 11-29-2011, 12:44 PM

If the B7K is anything like what I tried last week with the B3K, then B7K hands down. The VT Bass is good for modeling after an old time SVT head, but IMO, suffers from too much awful, metallic clank for my tastes (and I play Stingray's!). The B3K had this raw, clear sounding crunch that still let my clean tone shine through enough to where I could pull off arpeggiated notes and not sound too muddled together. Downside though is that it didn't sound that great blended with other effects, whereas the VT Bass shined in this area.

The VT Bass is nice and all for SVT type tones, but I couldn't really use it in many applications other than mixing and playing with other effects. And again if the B7K is similar to the B3K, then it will win a bullfight by stomping that prick in the nuts! The crunchy yet clear tone is fantastic.

tdub0199 · #12 11-29-2011, 12:49 PM

VTD.....

G3Mitch · #13 11-29-2011, 01:27 PM

i have a VT. it is quite cool, ill probably always hold onto it purely for recording. i didnt really find a 'dirt' sound i liked from it. but it does make my cleaner tones much smoother, not to mention(aside from the swollen pickle) it makes other pedals sound much better, example is the big muff.

those microtube pedals look pretty awesome. i think ill get a B3K early next year

topo morto · #14 11-29-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G3Mitch

it makes other pedals sound much better, example is the big muff.

+1 to that. Actually my suggestion (and part of the reason I was slagging off the VTD

) was going to be - get the small VT and the B3K.

FaithNoMan · #15 11-29-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topo morto

+1 to that. Actually my suggestion (and part of the reason to was slagging off the VTD

) was going to be - get the small VT and the B3K.

This.

I couldn't decide if I wanted to get rid of my Rusty Box, as it has the highs I like... yet wasn't so fond if its' midrange with my Ric.
The problem was, I really liked the recorded sound and midrange of my Tech 21 Oxford....the "Rusty" highs just weren't there, though.

So I bought the B3k, and was playing it through speaker sim boxes like the H&K Redbox Classic and the Behringer GI100. Although it sounded good, I still wasn't getting the same high-end the Rusty Box had.

I decided to put the B3k in front of the Oxford, on "thin" mode(which is really flat with no boosted lows). There it was - all the highs of the Rusty and all of the awesome midrange of the Oxford and B3k, but with many more added eq options.

Putting this pedal in front of a Tech 21 Character series(or any nice-sounding preamp) makes this great overdrive sound even better.

5lowfreq · #16 11-29-2011, 05:11 PM

I have the Tech 21 VT version 2 and the B7K. While the VT is great and has a lot to offer with the character adjustment, the B7K is just plain phenomenal. There is plenty to offer as far as adjusting the rawness, crunch, grit, etc. plus the added bonus of the blend knob. It is by far my favorite preamp/pedal, and I don't really use my BDDI or VT as much now that I have the B7K. And to top it off, running it on just the clean sounds great!

The BDDI and VT are both still great pedals. I still use them regularly and refuse to take them off my board, but I use the B7K more often an think it just sounds... better.

tech21nyc · #17 11-30-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topo morto

Thanks for the clarification. I thought I was paraphrasing something you guys had said on TGP about the character pedals without the speaker sim switch (i.e., you don't really need the switch and you do the same with the EQ controls) but maybe I am getting old...

The lazy pot feature is a thoughtful touch. What I was referring to was that on my unit, even once the knobs had 'achieved' their actual value,when moved they changed value in obvious steps, like a digital control with poor resolution...

Yeah I see where the misunderstanding is. What I said is that you can pretty much dial the speaker sim "out" with the on board EQ. The confusion is that many felt the curve of the speaker sim was making the pedal too bright. In reality, if the speaker sim is removed the sound would get even brighter still. The speaker sim switch on the V2 VT Bass does remove the speaker sim but also adds a 6dB per octave high frequency roll off to make it easier to use the pedal in front of a bright amp. I know it seems a bit confusing and it took me a minute to understand it but that is how it works.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by

Quote:

even once the knobs had 'achieved' their actual value,when moved they changed value in obvious steps, like a digital control with poor resolution...

The VT Bass Deluxe is an analog pedal that uses digital pots to control the parameters of the various functions vs a standard audio pot. The digital pots have a 256 step resolution and will give you the full range of sounds as an audio pot will. The LEDS can flash extremely fast and it may appear that they are not blinking. The idea is that the LEDS get you very close to the actual value but you need to use your ears to get the final result. If we used a full read out display the pedal would eat up power and you would only get about an hour with a battery and it wouldn't be able to run on phantom power. When you say it has poor resolution you may be confusing what you are "seeing" versus what you are hearing.

topo morto · #18 11-30-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

When you say it has poor resolution you may be confusing what you are "seeing" versus what you are hearing.

I'm pretty sure I understood the unit fine... I was hearing what sounded like audible (i.e. large) steps in the value as I turned the controls (and NOT in situations where the Lazy Pot function should have been in play )...

...but a 256-value resolution sounds like plenty, so I can only think there was an issue with my particular unit.

topo morto · #19 11-30-2011, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

The alternative would be motorized pots or separate LED displays for each control which would be very impractical in a pedal. It would have to be larger, heavier and obviously much more expensive.

The novation nocturn is a device that is much cheaper than the VT Deluxe, and has a 'per knob' solution...

What effect that would have on power consumption, I don't know - but you could always dim the LEDs when someone isn't playing with the pedal....

Toastfuzz · #20 11-30-2011, 09:53 AM

No experience with the B3K, heard great things about it, but with my original 1st-gen VT Bass, I have no GAS any longer for a "clean" tone generator (my clean tone being that which you describe you are trying to obtain.)

Between the 3 band EQ, the Character knob, and the Drive knob, you can get all kinds of Ampeg-y tones, not just roaring SVT. Like others said, from mellow blooming beautiful jazzy bass, to buzzsaw fuzz, to clanky Geddy-style SVT. I dig it.