School me on ProCo Rats

Holy War · #1 11-16-2009, 04:05 AM

I know there are TONS of different Rats out there, from the 80s Rat, to the Vintage Rat, to the Rat 2, to the Turbo Rat, to the Juggernaut and so on.

Im kind of lost in this world and was hoping someone could enlighten me as to the different versions of Rats out there, their individual characteristcs, and of course, which one is best for bass (retains lows the best).

I serched for a thread that was a 'Rat archive' per say, but couldnt find one, so I thought I would start here.

Thanks!

theunknowndude · #2 11-16-2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy War

I know there are TONS of different Rats out there, from the 80s Rat, to the Vintage Rat, to the Rat 2, to the Turbo Rat, to the Juggernaut and so on.

Im kind of loss in this world and was hoping someone could enlighten me as to the different versions of Rats out there, their individual characteristcs, and of course, which one is best for bass (retains lows the best).

I serched for a thread that was a 'Rat archive' per say, but couldnt find one, so I thought I would start here.

Thanks!

I know there is a video on youtube where someone compares a vintage rat (I think) to a turbo rat and a rat 2,...

I have a turbo rat and quite like it,... with the filter anticlockwise and the gain down it gets very,... clean yet very rough around the edges? compared to most distortions it seems very 'uncoloured',... it doesn't quite fit the 'sound' im going for in my band but I have it on my other pedal board cos I didn't want to get rid of it..

rratajski · #3 11-16-2009, 04:34 AM

RAT II - newest. Sucks out lots of bass. Very gritty/gnarly.

Vintage RAT Reissue - sounds close to the Vintage RAT. Holds decent low end (about the same as a Vintage. Larger board making it easier for mods. Larger box.

Vintage RAT - usually considered the fav in tone on here. Small box. Total Young Widows/Breather Resist/Jesus Lizard tone. More expensive than a Vintage Reissue.

Turbo RAT - LED clipping. Holds bass a bit better, but has a different sound in the clipping. TOOL fanboys' favorite.

theunknowndude · #4 11-16-2009, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rratajski

RAT II - newest. Sucks out lots of bass. Very gritty/gnarly.

Vintage RAT Reissue - sounds close to the Vintage RAT. Holds decent low end (about the same as a Vintage. Larger board making it easier for mods. Larger box.

Vintage RAT - usually considered the fav in tone on here. Small box. Total Young Widows/Breather Resist/Jesus Lizard tone. More expensive than a Vintage Reissue.

Turbo RAT - LED clipping. Holds bass a bit better, but has a different sound in the clipping. TOOL fanboys' favorite.

can't forget the juggernaut which appeared, then disappeared.
kinda funny noone liked it... and yet a turbo rat and clean signal mixed in is so ZOMG HARDCORE BREAKDOWN BASS TONE!

Holy War · #5 11-16-2009, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theunknowndude

can't forget the juggernaut which appeared, then disappeared.
kinda funny noone liked it... and yet a turbo rat and clean signal mixed in is so ZOMG HARDCORE BREAKDOWN BASS TONE!

Ya I saw some threads on here from back around 2002-2003 talking about the Juggernaut coming out at NAMM and all the Rat III jokes. It seemed cool, but them when i looked at ProCos website there was nothing to be found haha. Come to find out its gone for good these days. Im notmally a Muff guy, but Im looking for different options these days.

dannybuoy · #6 11-16-2009, 04:53 AM

What about the 'You Dirty Rat', anyone tried it?

vegas532 · #7 11-16-2009, 06:49 AM

I got a chance to play a Juggernaut yesterday and now I totally understand the hate: WORST. PEDAL. EVER.

rratajski · #8 11-16-2009, 06:58 AM

I read on here a long time ago that the YDR was really bad on bass, as was the BRAT.

ryanphonic · #9 11-16-2009, 01:33 PM

I've been using a RAT2 for the past year or so, and I love it. My newest setting is all three knobs at 3:00ish, and I don't have much noticeable low-end loss at all.

One thing to note is that mine is from the early 90s - NEW Rat2s are more cheaply made and don't have the coveted Texas Instruments LM308 chip. Supposedly the replacement chip is a lot harsher, and might account for the bass loss that I've heard people complain about.

I'd recommend buying used - you can get a RAT2 for $50-60, and just open it up to read the number on the chip before buying it. Most people don't know the difference.

UncleFluffy · #10 11-16-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanphonic

One thing to note is that mine is from the early 90s - NEW Rat2s are more cheaply made and don't have the coveted Texas Instruments LM308 chip.

Minor correction: LM308 is National Semiconductor.

bassman1185 · #11 11-16-2009, 03:09 PM

I could be wrong here, but I think that ProCo's QC is a little lacking with the Rats, especially the Juggernaut. I know that Larry Graham uses one, but that he sifted through a couple of dozen before finding the one he uses. I also saw Norma Jean a few months back, and their bassist sounded AMAZING with his Juggernaut. I've also heard a LOT of bad reviews on it.

bovine mind · #12 11-16-2009, 04:16 PM

I've been looking for the same classic "hardcore breakdown" Rat + clean blend + tube amp crushingly overdriven tone, but every Rat I've tried has let me down.

I've tried an 80's Rat, 80's Rat w/ compression and silicon/germanium mods, and a Rat II. I'm curious about the vintage Rat reissue, but haven't come across one yet.

The two 80's models were almost there, but sounded too harsh and carboard, boxy in the mids. It could have a lot to do with my Gibson Ripper.

The best solution I've found for that tone is to use to crank the gain on my SVT-CL, use a limiter with a volume button dimed to overdrive the front end even harder, and a tube driver pedal like the BK Butler Tube Works pedal. Basically just pushing the pre-gain of my amp to break up. Nothing has sounded as natural to me.

CliftonBonney · #13 11-16-2009, 06:06 PM

Here's a link for the original poster.

http://ratdistortion.com/history.htm

rratajski · #14 11-16-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bovine mind

I've tried an 80's Rat, 80's Rat w/ compression and silicon/germanium mods, and a Rat II. I'm curious about the vintage Rat reissue, but haven't come across one yet.

The Vintage RAT Reissue is just about the same as a Vintage RAT. If you didn't like one, you most likely won't like the other, my friend.

karter2000 · #15 11-16-2009, 10:08 PM

I scored a Vintage Rat reissue cheap on my local Craigslist a while back. So far, I'm actually digging it. To my ears, it has a pretty full low-end. It's gritty, but doesn't seem as over the top as I've heard about Rats. I'm not sure if it's "the one" but I think I'll keep it around for certain things.

a-lenthe · #16 11-23-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanphonic

I'd recommend buying used - you can get a RAT2 for $50-60, and just open it up to read the number on the chip before buying it. Most people don't know the difference.

Will it will say LM308 right on the chip when i look inside?

When you say "NEW" do you mean the 2003-present version with the sloped box?

http://ratdistortion.com/history.htm

rratajski · #17 11-23-2009, 03:02 PM

If it's an LM308, you'll see it on there. On some, the text is in a shiny black, so you really have to look. Light helps.

ryanphonic · #18 11-23-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a-lenthe

Will it will say LM308 right on the chip when i look inside?

When you say "NEW" do you mean the 2003-present version with the sloped box?

http://ratdistortion.com/history.htm

Mine is the boxy version - I think I read somewhere that they stopped using the LM308 in the late 90s, but I can't confirm that for you.

UncleFluffy · #19 11-23-2009, 09:49 PM

Having looked over the schematic a few times, I'm not convinced that an LM308 would make enough difference to be noticeable in a double-blind test, but they are still fairly widely (and cheaply) available if you want to mod a later version.

JoshuaTSP · #20 11-24-2009, 07:40 AM

I have both a Keeley RAT and Juggernaut.
The RAT alone is probably too much of a guitar pedal (low end cut) to use alone with a clean bass amp, especially a SS amp, as your main dirt.

I could see the RAT being awesome into a cranked tube amp, used as a light OD or as a solo boost.

The juggernaut is very hard to use.
Not so much that the controls are complex, just hard to dial in a good sound.
It has one good sound...okay two. Either a dark sounding RAT, or a clean blended smooth overdriven tone. IMO. It can sound good, but has a very narrow appeal.
I'm going to have to mess around with it some more......