Some questions about effects...

[MemoryJuice]

Hi. As you can probably see, this is my first post on these forums, but I've been coming to this site and reading up for a while... just finally decided to ask a question of my own. A little backstory:

I currently play in a 3 piece hard rock band. We have a very '90's' sound, I guess closest to acts like Trapt, the Goo Goo Dolls, and some of the Foo Fighters recordings... But its hard to say who you really sound like. When we're all playing rhythm, we get a very powerful, aggressive sound, but we run into problems when our guitarist drops out to play leads/solos, namely that our sound quite noticeably thins out. Hence the questions...

I'm looking for something to add some aggressive punch to my bass. Its not something that will be on at all times, but, ideally, when it (or a combination of its) comes on, it should be able to 'fill in' the hole in our sound, at least to an extent.

What I'm playing now: Currently, I'm playing a Fender American Deluxe P-Bass (the one with the P-Bass pickup on the neck and the humbucker on the bridge) that has a blend control and built in 3-band EQ and an Ampeg Pro-4 head on an Ampeg PR-410HLF cab. The head has a 9 band EQ and a built in compressor, and I generally have both EQ's (guitar and amp) set for a moderate boost to the lows, slightly less boost to the mids, and generally flat or slightly cutting the highs. We also play about half our songs with both guitar and bass dropped to D Standard tuning (So D G C F).

So, to end off this wall of text, suggestions? Are there any specific pedals/effects/power amps/what have you I should look into? Or is this something that's going to require more drastic change to get right, such as swapping out the instrument or the cab... or, god forbid, even the head. I've never really used any type of effects in my playing before, and I'm pretty much lost... So any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

[Eric!]

A lot of bassists have suffered that, no fear!

You're going to get two different sorts of recommendations as far as pedals go:

-Octave pedal: generated either an octave above and/or below the note you're playing and blends it with your clean signal. I personally don't dig octave up (either too digitaly or too whiny), but some pedals like a Boss OC-2, MXR Bass Octave Deluxe, and Aguilar Octamizer are popular around these parts.

-Dirt pedal: overdrive/distortion/fuzz, this is a more popular answer. Dirt pedals can do anything from giving an extra tubeyish growl to all out destroying anything nearby with pure sonic force. I'm a fuzz guy myself, I'd recommend a good Muff clone like an Earthbound Supercollider, Blackout Musket, or a Wren and Cuff Pickle Pie B (the PPB will give you the lowest gain settings, having a clean blend and an optimized spectrum on its Saturation knob). I'd recommend the PPB as a good first pedal, for sure. If you start liking dirt, you might end up like me (combined with pedals on the way, I think I have like 6 dirt pedals)!

Other popular answers I foresee:
Play louder, harder, faster, or move around more (think Geddy Lee in Freewill)

[Mudfuzz]

I agree with Eric on dirt.

But let me ask this, do your like you sound as it is?

One thing I end up doing under solos a lot is playing chords, octaves and drones.

[propel]

Originally Posted by MemoryJuice

Hi. As you can probably see, this is my first post on these forums, but I've been coming to this site and reading up for a while... just finally decided to ask a question of my own. A little backstory:

I currently play in a 3 piece hard rock band. We have a very '90's' sound, I guess closest to acts like Trapt, the Goo Goo Dolls, and some of the Foo Fighters recordings... But its hard to say who you really sound like. When we're all playing rhythm, we get a very powerful, aggressive sound, but we run into problems when our guitarist drops out to play leads/solos, namely that our sound quite noticeably thins out. Hence the questions...

I'm looking for something to add some aggressive punch to my bass. Its not something that will be on at all times, but, ideally, when it (or a combination of its) comes on, it should be able to 'fill in' the hole in our sound, at least to an extent.

What I'm playing now: Currently, I'm playing a Fender American Deluxe P-Bass (the one with the P-Bass pickup on the neck and the humbucker on the bridge) that has a blend control and built in 3-band EQ and an Ampeg Pro-4 head on an Ampeg PR-410HLF cab. The head has a 9 band EQ and a built in compressor, and I generally have both EQ's (guitar and amp) set for a moderate boost to the lows, slightly less boost to the mids, and generally flat or slightly cutting the highs. We also play about half our songs with both guitar and bass dropped to D Standard tuning (So D G C F).

So, to end off this wall of text, suggestions? Are there any specific pedals/effects/power amps/what have you I should look into? Or is this something that's going to require more drastic change to get right, such as swapping out the instrument or the cab... or, god forbid, even the head. I've never really used any type of effects in my playing before, and I'm pretty much lost... So any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

There you go, you need look no further. Really nicely summed up, only thing I'd add is octave + dirt

[MemoryJuice]

Originally Posted by Eric!

A lot of bassists have suffered that, no fear!

You're going to get two different sorts of recommendations as far as pedals go:

-Octave pedal: generated either an octave above and/or below the note you're playing and blends it with your clean signal. I personally don't dig octave up (either too digitaly or too whiny), but some pedals like a Boss OC-2, MXR Bass Octave Deluxe, and Aguilar Octamizer are popular around these parts.

-Dirt pedal: overdrive/distortion/fuzz, this is a more popular answer. Dirt pedals can do anything from giving an extra tubeyish growl to all out destroying anything nearby with pure sonic force. I'm a fuzz guy myself, I'd recommend a good Muff clone like an Earthbound Supercollider, Blackout Musket, or a Wren and Cuff Pickle Pie B (the PPB will give you the lowest gain settings, having a clean blend and an optimized spectrum on its Saturation knob). I'd recommend the PPB as a good first pedal, for sure. If you start liking dirt, you might end up like me (combined with pedals on the way, I think I have like 6 dirt pedals)!

Sounds like a trip to the local Sam Ash is in order. Personally, I've always LOVED the way you can get fuzz tones to sound on bass (When I've heard other people use 'em), and I'm actually in the process of building my own Muff clone at the moment... but I've been working on that for two months now and checking out some of the pedals you mentioned sounds like a good idea. Do the two work well when you combine them (octave and dirt)? Or is it kind of a one or the other thing, and use to taste?

Other popular answers I foresee:
Play louder, harder, faster, or move around more (think Geddy Lee in Freewill)

Harder is going to be a bit difficult. I generally like to try and bounce the strings off the fretboard when I play (I use my fingers) because I like that extra bit of crunch it gives, and louder just seems like it'd drown things out when our guitarist isn't off wanking. Which might not be a BAD thing for me and the drummer, but I'm sure SOMEBODY is going to complain...

And as for movement, I'll see if I can get some of our live videos posted... The kick drum is kind of like my second home. Or at least that patio overhanging the pool that kids like to jump off. Y'know, either or!

EDIT (because I didn't see this post when I wrote up my reply):

Originally Posted by Mudfuzz

I agree with Eric on dirt.

But let me ask this, do your like you sound as it is?

One thing I end up doing under solos a lot is playing chords, octaves and drones.

I LOVE the sound and the tone I get now. When we're all playing together things sound fantastic. It just seems to need that extra bit of push on a few songs... The biggest problem is that we have some VERY quick, aggressive songs and some that are much more pop/rock, and some that are big, powerful ballads. So something has to suffer, and it seems to be the solos on the real thrashy ones. Chords aren't a bad idea, I'll give them a shot tomorrow at practice, I'm just worried that (especially downtuned) they might sound too muddy. But it can't hurt to try!

[BassInUrFace]

use the search option.

but to answer your question, i find distortion to be good. i recommend the ELECTRO-HARMONIX BASS BIG MUFF. In the blend mode you can put the distortion on a very low level, while your dry signal will remain at unity gain. This will beef up and thicken your tone with out making the distortion really noticeable, you'll just sit nicely in the mix.

you can also use an octave pedal. I use the MXR BASS OCTAVE DELUXE, this produces and octave below the note your playing on your bass. you can control the dry and octave signal levels as well, this is another option.

[Mudfuzz]

Originally Posted by MemoryJuice

Do the two work well when you combine them (octave and dirt)? Or is it kind of a one or the other thing, and use to taste?

Oh yes, very much so. Also you want to go octave > dirt or you get glitchy sickness. The term that came about for octave > dirt 'round here was/is "βΘИΞКЯŲŜĦÏИĞ"

[JimmyM]

octave and distortion are cool for that, mostly distortion, but more important is coming up with good parts that sound fuller and make the best use of space.

[MemoryJuice]

Thanks for the information! I'll check these out and see what I like.

[Billy Low]

Well seeing as how the instrument that you have is not really considered an "aggressive" one you have a few things you can try. I would recommend trying an Aphex Aural Exciter, Xotic Bass RC Booster, SansAmp BDDI, or MXR DI. I have actually had luck utilizing an eq pedal dialed in w/a bit more upper mids than my normal setting to hit just when the guitar player drops. Tend to give me a bit more bite and will help accentuate the natural grittiness of the P p'up.

I have seen a few guys with a setup like yours (strictly P bass though) with the SansAmp and all I can say is....WOW! It will HUGEIFY your sound!!! I have tried the Apex w/other instruments and rigs and had the same effect, but I have not tried it with one similar to yours.

[chaosmic]

I play in a rock power trio as well and have had the same issue as the OP at times. I would suggest (and personally use) the Wounded Paw Battering Ram. It allows you to blend an overdriven sound with an aggressive fuzz which = HUGE presence in the mix. That being said, I also use my Supercollider (with max Mids and fully counterclockwise Depth) for the same purpose depending on the song....

[MemoryJuice]

Originally Posted by Billy Low

Well seeing as how the instrument that you have is not really considered an "aggressive" one you have a few things you can try. I would recommend trying an Aphex Aural Exciter, Xotic Bass RC Booster, SansAmp BDDI, or MXR DI. I have actually had luck utilizing an eq pedal dialed in w/a bit more upper mids than my normal setting to hit just when the guitar player drops. Tend to give me a bit more bite and will help accentuate the natural grittiness of the P p'up.

I have seen a few guys with a setup like yours (strictly P bass though) with the SansAmp and all I can say is....WOW! It will HUGEIFY your sound!!! I have tried the Apex w/other instruments and rigs and had the same effect, but I have not tried it with one similar to yours.

I saw two different SansAmp BDDI's, one that had a single channel and one that had 3. Is there a difference between the two, sound wise, or do I just get an extra 2 channels (which is never a bad thing) with the 3-channel version?

Originally Posted by chaosmic

I play in a rock power trio as well and have had the same issue as the OP at times. I would suggest (and personally use) the Wounded Paw Battering Ram. It allows you to blend an overdriven sound with an aggressive fuzz which = HUGE presence in the mix. That being said, I also use my Supercollider (with max Mids and fully counterclockwise Depth) for the same purpose depending on the song....

I just watched a video of the Battering Ram in use and all I have to say is WOW. I absolutely love the sound you can get out of that thing, and the price tag isn't bad at all considering you get both an overdrive and a fuzz out of it. I still want to check out some of the octave pedals, but I think the Battering Ram is a winner for me.

[RickenBoogie]

+1 for an o/d, I like the EBS Valve Drive,..alot. and, the Am Dlx P bass is a great bass for D standard tuning. How big is your D string? (I've used anywhere from a .110 to a .125 on mine, sounds massive).

[MemoryJuice]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

+1 for an o/d, I like the EBS Valve Drive,..alot. and, the Am Dlx P bass is a great bass for D standard tuning. How big is your D string? (I've used anywhere from a .110 to a .125 on mine, sounds massive).

.115, and the strings I usually use are GHS Bass Boomers.