sonic maximizer

[scogbass]

Who uses them do they help alot? edgumcate me on them
orderind new GK 500 w/2-10 neo
Thanks!

[scogbass]

Who uses them do they help alot? edgumcate me on them
orderind new GK 500 w/2-10 neo woundering if I should order sonic while i am at it?
Thanks!

[AREA]

I use and love mine. It´s set and forget on my Floorboard.

[t3ch]

blech.

[Bassmike62]

Originally Posted by AREA

I use and love mine. It´s set and forget on my Floorboard.

+1

I set mine on lo : 1 pm hi: 11 am. Been like that for awhile and love it. Works well for slap, but also for pretty much anything I use. Was considering the Aphex Bass Xciter, but poor built and noise made me run towards the BBE. Got it for 60 $ off the Bay.

[plangentmusic]

Great for recordings, not so much for bass. What provides clarity and separation in a mix doesn't work well on bass. It just thins it out.

[scotch]

The BBE knobs are as follows (according to their own manual):

"Lo Contour" boost-only shelving eq @ 50hz

"Process" boost-only shelving eq @ 10khz

Any "time aligning" or phase correction is fixed. If it's really even doing anything significant. For instance, how does BBE know how out of phase your highs & lows are? They don't.

You basically dial in how much low & high boost you want (net effect = "smiley face eq"). Chances are your amp can already accomplish this.

I know that the Sonic Maximizer devotees are going to jump all over me, but the above explanation of the controls is fact. BBE's published facts. Whatever time delay that exists between the highs & lows is a mystery - but what isn't a mystery is that it is not user adjustable.

I've worked in top notch studios as well as with top tier live sound engineers. From Bob Ludwig, Allen Sides, Marc Chevalier, Jim Scott, Thom Russo, Tome Lord-Alge, Jay Joyce etc.. none of these top industry professionals use Sonic Maximizers. If they want mid-cut, they use simple eq. Usually passive eq's for that matter!

[bongomania]

^^^ Solid truth.

Also, OP: do not post the same question multiple times in multiple places.

[iamdenialNJ]

Poo maximizer is not coming close to my pedal chain.

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by scotch

The BBE knobs are as follows (according to their own manual):

"Lo Contour" boost-only shelving eq @ 50hz

"Process" boost-only shelving eq @ 10khz

Any "time aligning" or phase correction is fixed. If it's really even doing anything significant. For instance, how does BBE know how out of phase your highs & lows are? They don't.

You basically dial in how much low & high boost you want (net effect = "smiley face eq"). Chances are your amp can already accomplish this.

I know that the Sonic Maximizer devotees are going to jump all over me, but the above explanation of the controls is fact. BBE's published facts. Whatever time delay that exists between the highs & lows is a mystery - but what isn't a mystery is that it is not user adjustable.

I've worked in top notch studios as well as with top tier live sound engineers. From Bob Ludwig, Allen Sides, Marc Chevalier, Jim Scott, Thom Russo, Tome Lord-Alge, Jay Joyce etc.. none of these top industry professionals use Sonic Maximizers. If they want mid-cut, they use simple eq. Usually passive eq's for that matter!

Some people feel the SM is just an EQ, but it's like any EQ I've ever used. And I too have recorded in some high end studios.

I'm not so sure that it adjusts the speed by which we hear highs and lows,(as claimed) but as a device for home recording it's well worth the investment.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

I'm not so sure that it adjusts the speed by which we hear highs and lows,(as claimed)

To be clear, that is the claim made by BBE.

[scotch]

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

Some people feel the SM is just an EQ, but it's like any EQ I've ever used. And I too have recorded in some high end studios.

I'm not so sure that it adjusts the speed by which we hear highs and lows,(as claimed) but as a device for home recording it's well worth the investment.

Well, in absence of any other eq options- sure the BBE Somic Maximizer gets the job done as a boost-only shelving eq.

I've been in some studios that had them in the rack. But they weren't being used and the studios definitely weren't "a-list".

BBE's whole claim isn't that they have a great 2 band eq, but that the "BBE Process" imparts its' own sonic magic. I'm not one to try and disprove their 'magic' anymore than I can prove that "clay dots sound better than plastic dots".
For the record, BBE DID secure a patent decades ago from Dbx for Dbx's eq dependent phase technology. So, it stands to reason, that there is some sort of fixed delay processing occuring in the BBE product. HOWEVER, its my opinion (and the opinion of the vast majority of audio engineer professionals that I work with) that what is making the biggest difference with Sonic Maximizer units is the significant midrange cut.

As always, if it works for you- great! Really! However, the op should be aware that he may just end up adding a redundant eq to an amp that he just purchased capable of the same basic thing.
Now, if the op had posted that he was looking for an easy to operate 2 band eq for less than $100- i'd be the last person to talk him out of the SM.

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by scotch

Well, in absence of any other eq options- sure the BBE Somic Maximizer gets the job done as a boost-only shelving eq.

I've been in some studios that had them in the rack. But they weren't being used and the studios definitely weren't "a-list".

BBE's whole claim isn't that they have a great 2 band eq, but that the "BBE Process" imparts its' own sonic magic. I'm not one to try and disprove their 'magic' anymore than I can prove that "clay dots sound better than plastic dots".
For the record, BBE DID secure a patent decades ago from Dbx for Dbx's eq dependent phase technology. So, it stands to reason, that there is some sort of fixed delay processing occuring in the BBE product. HOWEVER, its my opinion (and the opinion of the vast majority of audio engineer professionals that I work with) that what is making the biggest difference with Sonic Maximizer units is the significant midrange cut.

As always, if it works for you- great! Really! However, the op should be aware that he may just end up adding a redundant eq to an amp that he just purchased capable of the same basic thing.
Now, if the op had posted that he was looking for an easy to operate 2 band eq for less than $100- i'd be the last person to talk him out of the SM.

I can't say for certain that what you're saying is wrong -- HOWEVER, there is some debate here -- or in the least, conflicted theories.

Sound is very subjective and since mids contain "harshness" removing harshness gives the impression that there are simply less mids. Or maybe it's the other way around. (Less mids creates the illusion of more cleanliness.) Hard to say. A lot of tech guys understand the tech stuff but don;t necessarily have the greatest ears.

But again, The SM does not sound like a scooped EQ. When used on many instruments, it is clearly a different sound -- to my ears.

[scotch]

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

I can't say for certain that what you're saying is wrong -- HOWEVER, there is some debate here -- or in the least, conflicted theories.

Sound is very subjective and since mids contain "harshness" removing harshness gives the impression that there are simply less mids. Or maybe it's the other way around. (Less mids creates the illusion of more cleanliness.) Hard to say. A lot of tech guys understand the tech stuff but don;t necessarily have the greatest ears.

But again, The SM does not sound like a scooped EQ. When used on many instruments, it is clearly a different sound -- to my ears.

I see where you're coming from - and yes there is some debate for sure!

But, the fact is, as you crank up those 2 control knobs - you end up with less mids in the balance. It's unavoidable science- nothing subjective about it. Turn up shelves @50hz and 10k inherently equals less of the stuff not being turned up in between! (for bass guitar, there is not much happening above 10k and only sub frequencies far below 50).

As far as the subjectivity of the 'BBE Process' is concerned- I suppose your right. Not knowing what the delay is & having no way to adjust it makes it impossible to a/b effectively. So, again, if it sounds good to you -then it is good to you!

And for the record, I'm not really a "tech guy". I'm a player first and foremost! But, to both my ears, and on paper- the BBE is pretty much just a 2-band boost eq capable of only 'smiley-face scoopage' when both knobs get turned. I used to own one. (It was a looooong, long time ago!) The engineering pro's I listed aren't really "techies" either. Bob Ludwig, for instance , is the top Mastering Engineer in the states- known for a musical ear, not for following the latest tech trends. Jim Scott (5 time Grammy nominated engineer) only works with the best songwriters and artists as well (from Tom Petty to Audioslave to Slayer to Sting to Robbie Robertson, etc...).

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by scotch

I see where you're coming from - and yes there is some debate for sure!

But, the fact is, as you crank up those 2 control knobs - you end up with less mids in the balance. It's unavoidable science- nothing subjective about it. Turn up shelves @50hz and 10k inherently equals less of the stuff not being turned up in between! (for bass guitar, there is not much happening above 10k and only sub frequencies far below 50).

As far as the subjectivity of the 'BBE Process' is concerned- I suppose your right. Not knowing what the delay is & having no way to adjust it makes it impossible to a/b effectively. So, again, if it sounds good to you -then it is good to you!

And for the record, I'm not really a "tech guy". I'm a player first and foremost! But, to both my ears, and on paper- the BBE is pretty much just a 2-band boost eq capable of only 'smiley-face scoopage' when both knobs get turned. I used to own one. (It was a looooong, long time ago!)

I wasn't questioning YOUR ears. Just talkin' : )

I agree. The BBE affects highs and lows and as I said in my first post, it's not great for bass for that reason. (It already has lows and it doesn't really go above 6K).

Then again, the BBE SOFTWARE contains the "Harmonic Maximizer." That too is loaded with debate. But it WILL pump mids -- but again, unlike an EQ boost.

Now the sh*t has really hit the fan! LOL!

[savinggrace]

Originally Posted by Bassmike62

+1

I set mine on lo : 1 pm hi: 11 am. Been like that for awhile and love it. Works well for slap, but also for pretty much anything I use. Was considering the Aphex Bass Xciter, but poor built and noise made me run towards the BBE. Got it for 60 $ off the Bay.

You had noise from using a Aphex X-citer?

How does the X-citer compare tonally to the Sonic Maximizer?

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by savinggrace

You had noise from using a Aphex X-citer?

How does the X-citer compare tonally to the Sonic Maximizer?

The X-cier supposedly tweaks the overtone series. ANOTHER thing that is unprovable and dubious.

[Bassmike62]

Originally Posted by savinggrace

You had noise from using a Aphex X-citer?

How does the X-citer compare tonally to the Sonic Maximizer?

Haven't tried an Aphex. Read about its poor constitution and noise issues here and on Harmony Central. I hardly buy anything anymore before checking it out what people think about it.

[bassbrad]

I have one but don't use it on my bass, I use it as a plug in when I am mixing and need something to pop.

[nutdog]

This is funny. I have Crown amp I got for a PA and then went powered speaker. I couldn't get a good price trying to sell it so I decided to get a used pre and make a bass rig out of it to keep at home. Found a BBE 383 on CL, which has the SM but it wasn't called that. I didn't know what it did, it was just 2 more knobs to play with.

So looking at my settings, I've got the SM knobs both at noon with the EQ mids cranked and the lows cut. Go figure. Surf and learn.