Soundclip Request - Blended Fuzz with/without Inverted Phase

[4StringsEnough]

A massive request: who's using a fuzz or distortion pedal with a blender that has a phase inversion switch (like the Radial Bigshot Mix or the Barge Concepts VB-Jr)?

I'm using a fuzz blended using a Boss LS-2. It's OK, but not exactly what I'm after. I don't know if that's because it's being affected by the phase issue as, tbh, I'm not really sure what that is and how it portrays itself.

Would anyone care to record a quick soundclip of the same riff played blended with normal phase and then with inverted phase to demonstrate the difference?

[4StringsEnough]

Anyone?!!

[grygrx]

What kind of fuzz do you want to hear?

[4StringsEnough]

Rather than the type of fuzz I want to hear, I want to understand (hear) the difference between blending with inverted phase and blending without. Personally I have a LBM which I use for a Muse-style smooth fuzz. I just want to see how much difference there is and in what manner the sound is affected.

[Mark Olson]

I don't think it's going to make much of a difference at all unless you're running into phase cancellation issues. I mean, is your signal much quieter blended about half and half as opposed to fully clean or fully effected? If not you probably don't need a phase inverter and it probably won't make much of a difference if any on your sound.

[grygrx]

Originally Posted by Mark Olson

I don't think it's going to make much of a difference at all unless you're running into phase cancellation issues. I mean, is your signal much quieter blended about half and half as opposed to fully clean or fully effected? If not you probably don't need a phase inverter and it probably won't make much of a difference if any on your sound.

+1

[4StringsEnough]

Originally Posted by Mark Olson

I don't think it's going to make much of a difference at all unless you're running into phase cancellation issues. I mean, is your signal much quieter blended about half and half as opposed to fully clean or fully effected? If not you probably don't need a phase inverter and it probably won't make much of a difference if any on your sound.

Well I use a Boss LS-2 where you set the level of the dry channel and the level of the effected channel separately. You can boost either or both. It's not quite like the Barge Concepts blenders where you turn a knob for a mix. So I don't get a quieter signal in the way you might if you turned the blend knob on a Barge blender.

Are you saying that the phase issue is more of an output (volume) issue than tone?

[Mark Olson]

Well here's a definition of phase cancellation I pulled up online:

In physics, phase cancellation is the effect of summing two waves (like your clean and effected signals) that are out of phase with each other. Since the waves are not in phase, the crests and troughs will not match up, and the end result could be a wave that has less overall amplitude than both of the original waves. If the wavelengths are 180° out of phase, and they have identical amplitudes, there would be complete cancellation.

Does that make it clearer? Anyways, what effect are you trying to blend with your clean signal? Because unless it's a vintage effect that might be out of phase with your clean signal, you don't need phase inversion. If your signals are properly in phase to begin with I don't think inverting the phase of the effected signal will make a positive impact on your tone, in fact, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it may cause phase cancellation issues.

[arbitrary]

So if I'm running all new effects (no vintage ones) I won't need a phase cancellation on a blend pedal?

[Mark Olson]

Well it depends on the specific pedals. Not all vintage effects will be out of phase with your clean signal and not all new effects will be in phase with your clean signal. Some pedals, mostly vintage ones, when engaged output a signal that is out of phase with your clean unaffected signal. But, for example, I had a new MXR Script Phase 90, which is new but vintage styled, and I did have phase cancellation issues with it.

And it's a phase inversion switch on the blend pedal, not a phase cancellation. Phase cancellation is what you're trying to avoid with it.