Source Audio Bass Envelope Filter - Downsides???

[blastjv]

I've been researching and have really only found positive impressions so far (so I guess that's a good start). Anyone have anything to say on the negative side? Potential drawbacks I see are that the Pro models are a little large, though not as large as my old Morley (which ain't going NOWHERE), and there looks like there'd be a bit of a learning curve to get the most out of it, though the interface seems pretty well thought out.

I'm not really looking for 'funk' type sounds (though I love that stuff and will probably mess with them, just not what I will play in my band). Probably use this more for big spacey sweeps and ambient (but musical) sounds, probably almost always in combination with fuzz or distortion...maybe octave or flanger effects, too...

Anything this pedal can't do or isn't good at? Seems like with all the EQ control you could dial out problems with big spikes, etc...


-JV

[jbednarski]

I'm probably the only person here who has purchased and returned one of these. I thought that there was not a whole lot of difference between the 22 filters and found it to be a hassle to program/sync with outer effects. Really didn't have the dubstep type sounds that I was looking for (I can get those with my OC-2 > AGRO > MF-101 just fine). On the envelope filter side it does have a ton of options for sounds but I use a Proton and generally stick to a couple of settings. There are some amazing sound clips posted for the "synth-ier" tones that you can get from this pedal but again, I found them difficult to replicate even using the exact combo of pedals specified and getting settings advice from Source Audio. I know that they'll be a ton of comments about this but this was my personal experience. But then again, I sent back a Xerograph because I found it wasn't to my liking too, so my tastes tend to run counter to the masses. If you like fiddling with settings this may be a good option, but the more effects that I try, the more simple I want their operation to be. I'd rather play music than tweak spedals. Got burned on a "restocking fee" and return shipping even though I got a good price on Amazon.com so be careful before you buy.

[NicJimBass]

Originally Posted by blastjv

I've been researching and have really only found positive impressions so far (so I guess that's a good start). Anyone have anything to say on the negative side? Potential drawbacks I see are that the Pro models are a little large, though not as large as my old Morley (which ain't going NOWHERE), and there looks like there'd be a bit of a learning curve to get the most out of it, though the interface seems pretty well thought out.

I'm not really looking for 'funk' type sounds (though I love that stuff and will probably mess with them, just not what I will play in my band). Probably use this more for big spacey sweeps and ambient (but musical) sounds, probably almost always in combination with fuzz or distortion...maybe octave or flanger effects, too...

Anything this pedal can't do or isn't good at? Seems like with all the EQ control you could dial out problems with big spikes, etc...


-JV

I bought a BEF only to turn around a week later and sell it... to finance a BEF Pro. It's funny, but I keep finding new sounds and uses for it, and with the EQ and Backpage Menu, almost everything is tweakable. I've got some great funky filters, a Low Pass Filter thing for really deep dub bass, a dubstep wobble tone that I use with the Hot Hand, and a possible phaser sound I'm still working on. I got the Bass Multiwave Distortion the other day and have been using them side by side to get a great dubstep wobble that, so far, I'm very happy with. This is the best filter pedal I've ever used, and won't be going anywhere for a LOOOONG time.

[A Strohman]

Originally Posted by blastjv

I've been researching and have really only found positive impressions so far (so I guess that's a good start). Anyone have anything to say on the negative side? Potential drawbacks I see are that the Pro models are a little large, though not as large as my old Morley (which ain't going NOWHERE), and there looks like there'd be a bit of a learning curve to get the most out of it, though the interface seems pretty well thought out.

I'm not really looking for 'funk' type sounds (though I love that stuff and will probably mess with them, just not what I will play in my band). Probably use this more for big spacey sweeps and ambient (but musical) sounds, probably almost always in combination with fuzz or distortion...maybe octave or flanger effects, too...

Anything this pedal can't do or isn't good at? Seems like with all the EQ control you could dial out problems with big spikes, etc...


-JV

You've already touched on the drawbacks I would list....large form factor, learning curve, etc. Its a pedal I think you have to be patient with and willing to invest some time tweaking. It can be a plug and play sort of pedal just be dialing the different sounds but I think to get the most out of it, you have to get into the backpage and move parameters around to taste.

I can't really comment on what the pedal "can't" do as I have invested my time determining what it "can" do. I am mostly using it right now for vocal, synthy type tones which I manipulate with a Hot Hand. I also use a Multiwave Bass Distortion in front of it to further manipulate tones.

[gastric]

You have to always consider the pros and cons for every product. Always pros and cons. Check my sound sample pages (see my signature) for some demos of various BEF PRO sounds, and other product samples.

[wolffman]

Agreed. The "downsides" are the ones you’ve listed, but the pedal is definitely worth it. It is highly tweakable and with 6 presets there is a lot of flexibility. I don’t find the programming to be too difficult. You will need to read & reread the manual a few times, but the programming isn’t hard… it’s just deep. There are a lot of parameters to play with- which means you can really hone your sound, but you also going to spend time making perfect. Once you get the hang of how the pedal works it’s easy to remember how to tweak your sound, I’ll sit at work and have an idea of a new sound I want to try, plan it out in my head and when I get home execute it pretty easily. The good news is since there are presets, once you have that sound it’s locked in. One temporary drawback is that you can not save those presets to a computer so once they’re overwritten they’re gone for good. IIRC there will be a way to save in the future.

[alec]

One thing that would make it better is being able to control attack and release speeds separately.
Or am I missing something?

[itswac]

Originally Posted by wolffman

One temporary drawback is that you can not save those presets to a computer so once they’re overwritten they’re gone for good. IIRC there will be a way to save in the future.

We're working on some software that will allow to create and save presets on your computer and then upload them to the Pro via the MIDI connection. It's important to note though that it is strictly a one way connection, so any presets on the pedal will not be saveable on the computer. Future runs of the Pros will have a two-way MIDI connection though.

[CopperheadLXXIX]

Originally Posted by itswac

Future runs of the Pros will have a two-way MIDI connection though.

Any chance of being able to swap existing pedals for the upgrade when it happens? Don't want to have to buy all three of my Pro pedals again...

[wolffman]

Originally Posted by CopperheadLXXIX

Any chance of being able to swap existing pedals for the upgrade when it happens? Don't want to have to buy all three of my Pro pedals again...

aggreed!

[Jared Lash]

You've hit on the downsides really. The only thing I'd add isn't necessarily a downside but it IS a digital pedal with a digital sound. I'm not an analog snob by any means and digital doesn't mean bad sound. I'd put the Source Audio in the same sort of category as something like the EBS dPhaser which is a digital phaser in terms of "good" digital as opposed to some multieffects and old/mediocre digital pedals with cheesy, unrealistic or just flat out bad sound.

That said, it is a noticeably digital sounding effect. Depending on what you're doing with it that may actually be a positive. My personal taste always runs to analog filters (and phasers) but again, just personal preference.

I will say, while their current pedals aren't necessarily up my alley, I'm very impressed with what Source Audio is doing, especially at the price points they are targeting.

[Smallequestrian]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

You've hit on the downsides really. The only thing I'd add isn't necessarily a downside but it IS a digital pedal with a digital sound. I'm not an analog snob by any means and digital doesn't mean bad sound. I'd put the Source Audio in the same sort of category as something like the EBS dPhaser which is a digital phaser in terms of "good" digital as opposed to some multieffects and old/mediocre digital pedals with cheesy, unrealistic or just flat out bad sound.

That said, it is a noticeably digital sounding effect. Depending on what you're doing with it that may actually be a positive. My personal taste always runs to analog filters (and phasers) but again, just personal preference.

I will say, while their current pedals aren't necessarily up my alley, I'm very impressed with what Source Audio is doing, especially at the price points they are targeting.

That's why I have a Xero and a BEF Pro on my board. I need them for different things!

[scottfeldstein]

I'm still on the fence between the SA (non-pro) and the MXR unit. Subscribed.

[Basehead]

Originally Posted by Smallequestrian

That's why I have a Xero and a BEF Pro on my board. I need them for different things!

Exactly! I have the Xero (for Low-pass sweeps and swells), the BEF Pro (for lots more...and the HotHand makes some cool wobbles as well), and the 3Leaf Proton (has it's own sound, IMHO).

[rsmith601]

Originally Posted by itswac

We're working on some software that will allow to create and save presets on your computer and then upload them to the Pro via the MIDI connection. It's important to note though that it is strictly a one way connection, so any presets on the pedal will not be saveable on the computer. Future runs of the Pros will have a two-way MIDI connection though.

I think Will jumped the gun here. Based on conversations with Jesse, it is POSSIBLE for the BEF Pro to be redesigned at some point to contain this feature. It is a hardware change, not software. We have no plans to do this any time soon. We have some other key products in the pipe line that need to get done first. Sorry! (but I think you will like the other products )

[Funkinthetrunk]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

it IS a digital pedal with a digital sound..... That said, it is a noticeably digital sounding effect.

I don't know what a "noticeably digital sounding" filter sounds like and I'm a filter addict. I currently own the BEF Pro and own/owned many other filters. Help me understand...

Originally Posted by rsmith601

We have some other key products in the pipe line that need to get done first. Sorry! (but I think you will like the other products )

Bass synth pedal?

[rsmith601]

Bob Chidlaw and Jesse have some darn good ears. They can tell the difference between analog and digital compressors, but not filters. Blind listening tests with high quality filters are enlightening.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Funkinthetrunk

I don't know what a "noticeably digital sounding" filter sounds like and I'm a filter addict. I currently own the BEF Pro and own/owned many other filters. Help me understand...



Bass synth pedal?

I've gotta go with Jared on this one. It definitely does sound digital but 1.) Source Audio wasn't trying to to make an envelope filter that simulates an analog sound and 2.) Digital ≠ bad . I've tried and sold bunch of filters but my Source Audio BEF and the others I have stuck around because they offered something that the competition didn't have. the SA BEF in particular is practically 22 different filters rolled into one. The number of sounds you can get from it is just ridiculous and mine isn't even a pro model!

The biggest downside to me, is that, with my fuzz (a Brown Dog) the number of usable sounds is cut down to about half but that's still 11 different filter sounds to screw around with, lol. Second biggest downside? The fact that it looks so cool that I don't want to step on it .

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by Funkinthetrunk

I don't know what a "noticeably digital sounding" filter sounds like and I'm a filter addict. I currently own the BEF Pro and own/owned many other filters. Help me understand...

To me, digital filters (and phasers) are almost TOO clean sounding and precise. Again, that's not a bad thing but they don't have the artifacts or funky decays that you get with analog pedals. And when you DO have artifacts they are of a very different variety than analog pedals - choppy and (for lack of a better word) digital. And the triggering is noticeably different. I have a bit of trouble explaining it but when you hit an analog filter hard enough to trigger but not open all the way it is different than that same situation with a digital filter.

And again, that's not a "analog is great, digital sucks" statement at ALL. But they are different, though digital products are getting closer and closer to the point that for things like modeling it becomes very hard to tell.

I've heard digital delays voiced to sound like analog delays and done well enough that I couldn't tell the difference. But you can tell quickly if you try to create self-oscillations. Even digital delays that will let you self-oscillate vastly different than analog ones. I happen to like digital delay oscillation but I digress. The point is that there are always subtle differences.

I'm not prideful enough to discount the notion that me knowing the BEF was digital when I tried it may have biased my opinion on its sound. We should all know by now that are minds trick our ears very easily. But to me, it was a digital (but very good) sounding filter that just didn't tickle my fancy.

As a side note, red wine and candles are your best bet for getting a filter (or woman) to tickle your fancy.

[naruki]

Blend control?