Speaker Sim a la VT going in to stage rig

[pbass2]

Hi,
I'm not a big effects guy on bass--I prefer bass-tuner-amp-nice DI to FOH. However, I need a little bit of an "always on" slightly overdriven tone I can use for a rock/punk tour coming up. Sometimes the head will be my LMII. Sometimes, unknown backline. While passionate raves about the VT make it sound like a winner, the idea of having speaker emulation on going into my stage amp just seems weird to me. As for the DI FOH sound, that makes perfect sense. But does a unit with speaker sim on get "mushy" or anything when used as a stomp between bass and amp? I have never tried a similar thing--I had a Bass POD XT Live for a while and absolutely hated it so I never tried it in a live setting.
My other thoughts for "always on" slight grit boxes would be an Xotic BB (LOVE my trusty Tri-Logic which is about the only pedal other than a tuner I love but it doesn't do the grit I need) or a Fulltone Bass Driver.

[dannybuoy]

The speaker sim is not really a problem, but Mike Putnam can mod it with a speaker sim switch if you so desire, as well as a DI output.

[JimmyM]

all the speaker sim does is provide a frequency rolloff similar to an 810. if your cab already does that, then it's not even going to be noticeable. not that i'm saying you're doing it, but it's a fallacy and a great injustice to the greatest bass pedal ever invented that some people try to spread that nonsense about it only sounding good through pa speakers or studio monitors. i use mine with an svt or b-15 all the time. love it.

however, www.putnamguitars.com can add a speaker sim defeat if you really need it. he's also a tech 21 dealer so you don't even have to bother with sending a pedal to him.

[pbass2]

Thanks Guys.
Yeah, I could very well be faced with SVTs in the backline, GK stacks, who knows. But I love the idea of sending a DI'd "amp-ish" sound FOH. I know this is all nothing new, but it is for me!
I guess I thought the speaker sim perhaps added an element of "air" or ambience or what-have-you that I thought would be redundant pumping through a fridge!

[P-oddz]

Have you considered anything like an outboard preamp for tone shaping? I recently picked up the Aguilar Tone Hammer, that (with it's gain stage) can dial in a very nice little bit of grittiness and is extremely versatile IMO for tone shaping. With this route (unless you are actively searching for Ampeg-like modeled tones) you can always adjust according to what amp you are playing through, and still dial in that grit that you would be looking for. For my purposes, it's ALWAYS on, and the tone is really impressive.

[pbass2]

Originally Posted by P-oddz

Have you considered anything like an outboard preamp for tone shaping? I recently picked up the Aguilar Tone Hammer, that (with it's gain stage) can dial in a very nice little bit of grittiness and is extremely versatile IMO for tone shaping. With this route (unless you are actively searching for Ampeg-like modeled tones) you can always adjust according to what amp you are playing through, and still dial in that grit that you would be looking for. For my purposes, it's ALWAYS on, and the tone is really impressive.

I have been looking at things like that yes. For example, I have an Xotic Tri-Logic pre that I use with my passive basses pretty religiously (it's about the ONLY box I use!). It is a stellar unit but doesn't provide any significant grit or grind. I just need that little bit of "gainy" "broken-up" crunch--just a smidge. So the BB comes to mind.
But the VT gets such raves I think I gotta go try one somewhere!

[jpTron]

I'd go for the VT. I'm really happy with the grindy tone I've dialed in with it that I went from wanting to equip my pedal board with a Tube Screamer and modded DS-1 to just needing the VT. It pretty much does it all.

[JimmyM]

advantages of the vt:

---sounds like ampeg
---does a great clean-to-medium overdrive
---plenty of gain, can drive a power amp if need be
---looks real pretty (hey, it counts for me)

disadvantages:

---sounds ONLY like ampeg (i like it...ymmv)
---no di (can be modded, though)
---not the most intuitive pedal ever made

[P-oddz]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

advantages of the vt:

---sounds like ampeg
---does a great clean-to-medium overdrive
---plenty of gain, can drive a power amp if need be
---looks real pretty (hey, it counts for me)

disadvantages:

---sounds ONLY like ampeg (i like it...ymmv)
---no di (can be modded, though)
---not the most intuitive pedal ever made

Jimmy is right on, here - and that's a reason you may want to consider looking outside the VT bass. I loved the VT Bass when I first got it, and then found that I wanted different tones available at different times. I found the VT didn't cooperate well with some of my other pedals. Don't get me wrong, it sounds good, but like Jimmy says - it sounds "ONLY" like an ampeg. Not to push the Tone Hammer specifically, (even thought I am loving it ) but I get the tone shaping, the DI, the power to drive a power amp, and multiple stages of added gain to my signal all in one handy sized package. Just saying

(No offense Jimmy - I love your work )

[DosiYanarchy]

As far as I understand it, the speaker sim is purely a roll-of of the highs around 5k and a roll off of the lows at some deep frequency - basically if you're used to using a super hi-fi rig with a glassy top end, you might find that it cuts too many highs, but for many a 5k roll off is fine - on my Zoot 210 5k and above is dealt with by the tweater, which i usually turn off anyway. The Vt provides plenty of attack and never gets muddy (for me) due to the powerful EQ and the fact that its cutting off the deepest of the lows.

Personally i've only ever noticed the benefits to my tone when using the VT, the only thing that doesnt sound quite the same or better is the MXR Bass Blowtorch and the ZVEX Mastotron - I think its something about the way the VT processes the midrange.

of course this is only my opinion.

[DosiYanarchy]

having said that, I dont use the VTbass on an overdriven setting, drive is usually at 9 o clock for me, I'll use my OLC flipster for the OD.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by P-oddz

Jimmy is right on, here - and that's a reason you may want to consider looking outside the VT bass. I loved the VT Bass when I first got it, and then found that I wanted different tones available at different times. I found the VT didn't cooperate well with some of my other pedals. Don't get me wrong, it sounds good, but like Jimmy says - it sounds "ONLY" like an ampeg. Not to push the Tone Hammer specifically, (even thought I am loving it ) but I get the tone shaping, the DI, the power to drive a power amp, and multiple stages of added gain to my signal all in one handy sized package. Just saying

(No offense Jimmy - I love your work )

hey, not every piece of gear is for everyone.

[P-oddz]

Originally Posted by DosiYanarchy

Personally i've only ever noticed the benefits to my tone when using the VT, the only thing that doesnt sound quite the same or better is the MXR Bass Blowtorch and the ZVEX Mastotron - I think its something about the way the VT processes the midrange.

Funny, as the Zvex Distortron is the pedal that I stopped using the VT for. I liked it's grind more than the VT, and like you - noticed the Zvex and the VT didn't play nicely together.

[P-oddz]

I'm curious also, Jimmy... how do you use the VT in your lineup? Aren't you playing into Ampeg amps? Do you do the VT into an Ampeg? Or are you strictly using it to go to the house, or for recording purposes?

Just curious.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by P-oddz

I'm curious also, Jimmy... how do you use the VT in your lineup? Aren't you playing into Ampeg amps? Do you do the VT into an Ampeg? Or are you strictly using it to go to the house, or for recording purposes?

Just curious.

i use it mostly as an overdrive. however, i will use it in my little home studio as a clean pre and i'll use it occasionally to ampeg up a rented amp, though my british pedal with the low end mod usually gets that duty these days.

that all might change when the vt deluxe comes out, though. not really sure how it will shake out, to be honest. i've been contemplating not micing my ampegs anymore. seems like a waste to bring them and not mic them, but i'm finding it hard to argue with the sound quality.

[lowfreqgeek]

Originally Posted by pbass2

I have been looking at things like that yes. For example, I have an Xotic Tri-Logic pre that I use with my passive basses pretty religiously (it's about the ONLY box I use!). It is a stellar unit but doesn't provide any significant grit or grind. I just need that little bit of "gainy" "broken-up" crunch--just a smidge. So the BB comes to mind.
But the VT gets such raves I think I gotta go try one somewhere!

I picked up a VT Bass a couple weeks ago for the same reason - I wanted to add some grit to my Epifani stack. It does that really, really well, and I've been happy with the tone - mostly.

However, I kind of wish I had gone the Xotic BB route just because I don't really need a preamp as much as a pure (for lack of a better term) overdrive to add to the tone I'm already pretty happy with. I realize that every pedal has it's own thing, but my take on the BB Boost is that it's more about adding drive/grit to the basic raw tone and less about altering that tone. Maybe I'm wrong?

I really like the VT Bass, and I have plenty of use for it, but it's got it's own sound that I can't get away from without doing some mods. So far, I haven't had any trouble getting great tones from it, but it still doesn't sound like my sound with some added grit: it sounds like an "ampeged" version of my sound, with grit...

Overall I like it, and I like having it around, but I may consider finding a BB Boost at some point for a little different character. YMMV.

[JimmyM]

i'm a little curious why people who aren't looking for ampeg tones would buy a vt then bum when it sounds like an ampeg. it's pretty clear what it's about, isn't it?

[P-oddz]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i'm a little curious why people who aren't looking for ampeg tones would buy a vt then bum when it sounds like an ampeg. it's pretty clear what it's about, isn't it?

I wonder if it has anything to do with all the hype surrounding the pedal(?) I think that this pedal was so greatly received (and for good reason admittedly) that people have come to equate this as the magic fix-all-tone solution (which is not the case for everyone obviously).

Personally I bought it as an overdrive pedal, and was very happy with it for awhile. Then I switch over to a new amp, and realize it colors my signal too much, and that I like the tone of my ZVex Distortron pushing my amp more. No harm, no foul - move over VT .

That's why I'm often surprised as well by seeing posts on here that just absent-mindedly answer "get the VT Bass" for any tone question. You summed it up earlier... doesn't work for everybody, and it definitely doesn't work for every situation.

[pbass2]

This is all very interesting. I'm going to have to make a trip over to Bass Exchange and try out the BB, and if they don't have a VT I'm sure I can try that at GC.
I'm not against amp modeling by any measure---I use Amplitube SVX recording ALL the time. I can't really mic up an amp in my little studio. It's a godsend. I also dig the idea of sending an amp sound FOH. I've just never done that! We'll see---I will have to test drive them.

[12bass]

Originally Posted by DosiYanarchy

As far as I understand it, the speaker sim is purely a roll-of of the highs around 5k and a roll off of the lows at some deep frequency - basically if you're used to using a super hi-fi rig with a glassy top end, you might find that it cuts too many highs, but for many a 5k roll off is fine...

Good description of the speaker simulation circuit. Its effect is a bit of roll-off, nothing magical.

I've modded mine with a bypass switch and prefer having the sim bypassed when using a clean tone - sounds clearer. It does help smooth the nasty overtones when running distorted, however....