splitting effects in a bi-amp setting?

[silvermaneZ]

OK, I have been here for years, but have never posted in the effects section. So HI all!

I am starting to get into using more effects with my playing, and want to branch out. I have been using an ART nightbass, but it is not doing it for me so I am thinking of moving to a pedal setup. However, I have a question. Is it possible to split your signal chain so that you are still running in full range vs. bi-amped, but only having the effects run on the upper end of the frequency spectrum?

Here are two examples of what I am talking about:

On Operation Mindcrime Eddie Jackson has talked about recording the song I don't believe in love. He recorded a regular track, and then recorded the same track with light chorus and distortion, and took out all the low end. He layered the two for the album so you still had the heaviness but the effects as well.

I have also read interviews where Tom Petersson has effects just on the high end of his signal. But, he is also running a tri-amp system and has used a Marshall combo in the past for just the high end with all the bass frequencies rolled off.

So is it possible to do what I want without running a Bi-amp system? I use a Hartke rig and have no need or desire to run bi-amped. Any ideas or links to articles that might get me going in the right direction would be appreciated.

Robert

[Sean S]

Of course it's possible! All you need is a signal splitter, like an A/B/Y pedal before your pedal chain.

[SteveMcB]

It can definitely be done. However if you're wanting to change to a pedal-based setup, AFAIK there's only really one game in town for biamping - the Peavey BAC-2 biamp bass chorus. It's the only pedal I know of which acts as an instrument-level crossover (and it also does a nice versatile chorus on the high-end only). I've been biamping (lows clean through bass amp and highs +/- effects through guitar rig) using the BAC-2 for a couple of years now. It sounds great (especially with my 12-string bass) but I'm sick of carting around a full guitar rig when I'm playing bass, so I'm thinking currently about setting up a biamp effects setup (effects only on the highs) which then hits a mini-mixer (probably either a behringer or the boss LS2) before going into the bass amp. That way I can distort (/delay/chorus) just the highs but only use one amp.

I've heard of people quasi-biamping by using a signal splitter, a couple of graphic eq's and then a mixer before hitting the amp, but the BAC-2 is a more elegant solution to my mind.

The other (much more common) setup around here is using a blender pedal to blend in some effected tone with your straight signal. This can sound very cool, but does have the potential to run into phase cancellation issues between the effected and unaffected signals (unlike a biamp setup).

Good luck,
Steve

[Swift713]

Someone here was talking about building a crossover blender loop for this very purpose but I don't know if they've gotten anywhere with it.

[ehque]

Originally Posted by Swift713

Someone here was talking about building a crossover blender loop for this very purpose but I don't know if they've gotten anywhere with it.

This is the guy. Check out his website. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/member.php?u=24958

[veloce]

While it definitely is possible, I would still recommend bi-amping.
I tried doing the whole a/b/y thing for a year or two, and it worked, but not quite as well as I wanted it to. I finally ended up bi-amping, and it sounds far better than it did before. Then again, it could just have been the particular effects I was running and the way I ran them...

[Swimming Bird]

You definitely don't need to biamp if your setup can handle the highs -- I'm guessing it can as that's generally what I think of when I see 'Hartke.'

I see a couple options:
1) the aforementioned A/B-Y box >> effect >> mini mixer
2) Boss LS-2
3) some other blender pedal like a Barge Concepts or Xotic X-blend

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, just choose the one you feel most comfortable with.

Also, I'd suggest running an EQ pedal first so you only effect the highs.

[moosapotamus]

Originally Posted by ehque

This is the guy. Check out his website. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/member.php?u=24958

Thanks, ehque!

Here is something that I recently put together that I have not had a chance to put on my web site... yet.



Coincidentally, I think this is exactly what the OP was looking for.

It's a blendable effects loop pedal with a low pass filter on the clean signal path and a high pass filter on the effects loop send. The cutoff frequency of each filter is adjustable by the HP and LP knobs, and the filters can be independently enabled or disabled with the little toggle switches on the sides.

The wet/dry knob controls the balance of the mix between your clean and effected signals. The output knob controls the overall output level and can provide a boosted output as well.

If you switch both filters off, it works just like any of the other blendable effects loop pedals... full range signal to the send jack, blended with your full range clean signal.

Switching on the high pass filter on the effects send allows you to feed the effects loop with only the upper end of the frequency spectrum. Switching on the low pass filter on the clean signal path lets you dial some or all of those clean high freqs out of your clean signal so that you are not blending clean highs back in with the effected highs. At the extremes, this combination can be made to sound dramatically different compared to just splitting and blending without any filtering.

Also, with nothing plugged into the effects loop, the signal will still go through the effects loop side. So, what you get is parallel HP and LP filters that can do a lot of tone shaping all on their own.

~ Charlie

[Swift713]

Moose, your site makes my mouth water, do you sell these or are you just promoting the DIY circuits? Did I miss something?

[moosapotamus]

Nah, you didn't miss anything. I just haven't really promoted my pedal building very much.

I can build & sell most of the stuff on my web site. Shoot me a PM if you're interested in something.

I'm mainly set up to make the ParaLooper right now. Anything else would just have a longer lead time.

Thanks
~ Charlie

[silvermaneZ]

thanks for all the information guys. this is defintely helping with starting the process of building a great pedal setup. All of the suggestions have been first class.

Thanks again,
Robert

[idoru]

A debt of gratitude to you, Mr Moosapotamus. The BPL circuit is exactly what I'm after - I'm thinking of rackmounting an old Ibanez FC-10, and I'll have lots of space to add this in too.

c-

[ga_edwards]

For what it's worth, I used to do quasi biamping as I wanted true dual channel compression a la Billy Sheehan.

I used my Behringer bass v-amp set to amp bypass, but using the biamp mode to spilt the signal into highs and lows which I fed into separate channels of my rack compressor. The high set with fast attack and high ratio, the lows, set slower and less squish. I recombined the signal with a simple 2 mono jack to single mono socket adaptor, through to effects then back to amp. I could've just ran the highs to the effects then recombined but it didn't sound quite right, anyway, the GT6B I was using at the time you could scoop certain effects out of the low end like chorus, reverb and OD/dist.

It worked quite well, but was far too much stuff to lug around. I got a dualband comp pedal that replaced the whole rack and few pedals for other effects in the end. Not that this is much help to you.

[ihateusernames]

Charlie - You kick tail my man. That is sweet. Does it come in a high pass out/ low pass out version?