Splitting signals and compressing lows...

G0rilla · #1 11-08-2009, 04:53 AM

As few people have noticed from my posts in PYP threads, im running 2 parallel channels, one for low and low mid boost, and second for fuzz/overdrive and tone darkening with chorus.

So the chain is: LS-2 running in A+B mix mode.
Ch A: Boss GEB-7 (always on) with boosted lows and low mids.
Ch B: ProCO Turbo Rat for overdrive, MXR Blowtorch and DOD FX-52 for fuzz and CEB-3 to make tone darker. Chorus is always on, and actually no chorus effect can be heard, but tone just seems dark and sounds "sad".

I find this setup very usefull, as i always have my clean lows when i use fuzz or distortion, and clean tone is also good. But there are 2 major problems:
1. Size of setup. I need 3 pedals that i actually don`t stomp on, and i don`t have 2 tier pedalboard. I would like to make it wasting less space on pedalboard.
2. If i don`t boost lows enough, the overall sound of band lacks low-end. But if i boost them just a little, they start to rumble, and my tone gets close to that ampeg-ish low rumble i hate. It has no dynamics and tone begins to lose note clarity.

Keep in mind that this is live setup.

I am thinking about solution last few days, and i have few ideas:
- Put compressor after GEB and compress the lows a bit, so they keep tight, punchy, and don`t rumble the floor too much. Would this work?
- Use rack EQ, compressor and probably chorus. This will save my pedalboard space, but also question about rack appears.
- Use some of those multi purpose bass pedals, like EBS Micro Bass II or Tonebone bassbone. I would put my dirt and chorus in fx loop in case with EBS But several problems appear here too - the eq on both are not parametric, and 3 band eq is way too less for me. Also there is no way to put compressor AFTER eq. Also notice that i don`t want to use any hi/low path splitter, because i still need lows with fuzzes and hi`s in clean signal.

Good solution to this problem would bet using stereo rig, but there also appear some problems - size of rig, expences, etc.

At the moment i like path like this the best:

What you think? Can you recommend me any compressor that will do this job? If my setup will bet that, i guess i will make little tone-shaping board and put it on top of amp.

My gear is Warwick Rockbass Corvette Classic, 4str in BF#BE, Dean Markley Blue steels, playing with both fingers and pick, and tone is Geddy/JC type of sound, but with more low end.

la grange · #2 11-08-2009, 06:31 AM

Hi Gorilla,
so far I have never been able to find a compressor I would be happy with in a stomp box format. Rack units yes, but stomp box.... Though I haven't tried the new Compressore from mark bass.
That being said, depending on budget, you have the obvious DBX 160, but one that works well especially with the low end is Maxcom from BBE that gives you the maximizer section as well. Though it is not a Opto, it is pretty smooth for a VCA and you can tweak it to your liking.
as for your chain, because you do not filter on your split box, you should eq before comp otherwise your comp might be working on unwanted frequencies which is a waste of its speed.
If you have access to a crossover, you should experiment with that as a splitter, it would save the EQ on the low end.

Best of luck.

Oli

fightthepower · #3 11-08-2009, 06:59 AM

I don't know all the details so you'll have to look it up, or maybe someone (smurfodeath?) can chime about it, but the FEA Labs Dual-Band Optical compressor has a crossover and high+low compression bands. Might be worth looking into.

Smurf-o-Deth · #4 11-08-2009, 09:26 AM

Yeah, the FEA Dual Band has a controllable cross-over point with outs for each band, separate ratio, threshold, attack, release, and gain controls for each band, and the highs are footswitch-bypassable for maximum articulation. I do a similar thing as to what you describe, sending everything above 250 Hz to my distortion, everything below 250 Hz to my octaver, then recombining them afterward with an X-Blender (which is great for this kind of application, as it has 2 band EQ, a volume control, a boost, a huge knob for changing the mix on the fly, and you can eliminate either band of frequencies with a stomp). I also use the FEA as a shelving boost on my low band. It is not a cheap set-up, but it is very good at what I want it to do.

Also, no "a" in the name, kids!

bongomania · #5 11-08-2009, 09:37 AM

I also use an FEA for this sort of purpose, just like Smarf-a-Dath. It's a truly great pedal. But since you are already kind of splitting your frequencies by emphasizing the highs on one channel and the lows on another channel, there's no reason not to put any decent comp pedal on that lows channel. I'd suggest the Demeter or the Maxon CP9Pro+, as they are pretty good limiters of low-freq peaks, without losing the low balls.

One thing to bear in mind though is that you may have problems with certain frequencies dropping out or being unnaturally boosted, due to signal wave interference between the two signal paths. That's the reason I use a crossover (in the FEA).

Best quality per dollar though for this sort of thing is a used Rane DC24, which I see on Ebay all the time going for around $100.

Smurf-o-Deth · #6 11-08-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

...Smarf-a-Dath...

G0rilla · #7 11-08-2009, 05:39 PM

Ok, thanks, now i have some things to check out.
Now i have question, how those rack units will work on instrument level? I really don`t want to use them in fx loop, because of way many pedals sound and act in there.

bongomania · #8 11-08-2009, 08:53 PM

It varies from one unit to the next. I don't concretely remember whether the DC24 is one that will work at instrument level, perhaps a current owner can let us know.

paulygonemad · #9 03-09-2010, 10:23 PM

Sorry to resurrect, but I did not want to start another thread.
Above, this pedal is discussed.
http://www.fealabs.com/products/DBOC-SMX-0001.html

I have been looking for a solution for my signal chain. I want to split the frequencies rather than "fake" a split. I then want to effect each signal (hi/lo) in its own chain and recombine before sending back to a single amp. I understand the guys like Chris Squire would run each to a separate amp, I am trying to save space and money by running the recombined signal into one amp (if that is stupid, feel free to call me out, it would be appreciated). I would more than likely get the 2 channel fea mixer as well, looks like those will do it.

Call me crazy, but sometimes I want to fuzz only the low, while shimmering the hi with say, something else. Recombine and send to amp. Really all I am missing is the magic box to split.

Is this a pipe dream? Seems like what I have been looking for. Other options would be appreciated.
Thanks.

bongomania · #10 03-09-2010, 10:57 PM

Not a pipe dream at all. It can be tricky dialing in the sound you want, without any negative side effects, but only "tricky"--not "impossible".

In addition to the excellent FEA products, which I recommend without reservation, [sfx] has a small combiner unit, and he is working on a matching crossover/splitter (not yet finished). http://www.sfxsound.co.uk I was just talking with him about this today.

paulygonemad · #11 03-09-2010, 11:16 PM

Great info. I was eyeballing the Split and Mix pedals a while back, thinking that if there was a crossover function I would be very interested.

I read your review of the FEA and liked what you had to say about it. I am looking at dropping quite a bit of coin if I go that route, but it would be money well spent.

Great info, as always.
Thanks.

paulygonemad · #12 03-09-2010, 11:46 PM

I owe you another thanks.
That Thumpinator is something that just made my list.

bongomania · #13 03-09-2010, 11:53 PM

It's a permanent part of my rig.

paulygonemad · #14 03-10-2010, 01:05 AM

As a finger player, a must have. Man, I love these forums.

Silent Fly · #15 03-10-2010, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

(...)[sfx] has a small combiner unit, and he is working on a matching crossover/splitter (not yet finished). http://www.sfxsound.co.uk I was just talking with him about this today.

Just a quick note to confirm what Bongomania wrote.

I am indeed working on a crossover in pedal format. I need to define a few details before telling you more about it but it is something I will produce.

I'll keep you informed about it.

paulygonemad · #16 03-10-2010, 01:36 AM

Great, thanks. I emailed you as well, no hurry on a response. Put me down for a Thumpinator if you don't mind.

OilcanRacer · #17 03-10-2010, 11:15 AM

your idea is not unreasonable or not correct in any way. in fact i use two small passive mini mixers(mxr) to split my signal four ways and recombine just before the amp. i even have a LS-2 in between to further split up pedals and it works great.
the amount of volume control before and after pedals really helps to get things even.

Personatech · #18 03-11-2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Fly

Just a quick note to confirm what Bongomania wrote.

I am indeed working on a crossover in pedal format. I need to define a few details before telling you more about it but it is something I will produce.

I'll keep you informed about it.

Please, keep us informed on this. I'm looking for just such a unit and, while the FEA might meet my needs, it's more coin than I'd care to drop on a second compressor.

Tom

SteveC · #19 03-11-2010, 03:10 PM

Get a Rane DC-24. If I still had a rack, I'd still have one. I just use my BBE Pedal now as I'm all about small and light with my Genz Benz combo.

paulygonemad · #20 03-11-2010, 03:26 PM

I will be sure to post vids and stuff once I get set up. Max at SFX has picked up the gauntlet on this. He has something cooking that I think a lot of folks will be interested in.

I will be sure to follow up with you all, I am pretty stoked to see how it turns out.