On-stage Monitoring Woes

[TheMutt]

I'm not entirely sure where this should be posted, but I figured that there's enough gurus around here that might know. (Sorry, it's a long read because I'm a details person...)

Recently, the formation that we sit/stand in for Sunday praise has changed around. It used to be that I was standing next to the praise leader (and therefore almost in direct line-of-sight of my amp). But now that there is a second backup singer who has joined us, my spot has been moved back to behind the praise leader. Personally, I liked this move because it freed me up from having to provide some backup vocals, as well as allowed me to move around more on the neck since I didn't have to look out at the congregation as much. The problem was though, there was no place else for my amp to sit at except where it has been. My new position put me actually behind my amp, with it facing away from me. Our PA system is already fed a gross amount of mics and instruments (3 singing mics, accoustic guitar, piano, and a djembe), so I can't plug into the board.

I went out and purchased a PreSonus HP-4 headphone distributor, and a set of M-Audio IE-10 reference ear buds for last week. The signal chain goes like this:
Bass > Effects > Gallien Krueger 700RB II > XLR out of amp goes to HP-4 (was recommended by the Guitar Center guy to do this), and regular output to my 410.
The problem that I am now having is that the reference sound that is coming out is sorely too quiet. I could just barely make out my bass. Even with a good seal on the headphones (I only have one ear in so that I can still hear everyone else. These headphones make things silent!) and the volume turned up all the way on the XLR out as well as on the HP-4. Is there something that I am doing wrong? Or is there a better way to do this, or another product that I should look into?
Help!

[RickenBoogie]

You could get a second amp, a combo, and run it facing you. I do this often, combo amp on a tilt back stand, facing me as a personal monitor. If your fx has stereo out, just run it off that, or use a simple ABY, whatever you want. The advantage is obvious, no in ear buds, leaving you able to hear everything, especially yourself.

[badgrandad]

Depending on the amp the XLR is driven either by a constant feed by the preamp and the "volume knob for the XLR is what sets the over-all output (and if that is the case you could be getting the full output of your XLR) OR as in other amps your input gain drives the XLR (even if it has an attenuator knob on it to allow some padding or adjustment to the send to the board or other output device).

You migh try setting your input gain higher, either by taking the input pad off (if in fact you have it engaged) and turn up your input gain as high as you can without overdriving that stage and then set your stage volume by the master.

You should be able to get plenty of signal from your amp to drive that headphone amp. Other alternatives would be to try the effect send as a send to the unit and see if that has a hotter signal, also check the headphone amp to see if it has an input sensitivity switch or knob that can be adjusted.

Let us know if any of this works. You could also run a small monitor cab off of the high side power amp and point it back at you.

[TheMutt]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

You could get a second amp, a combo, and run it facing you. I do this often, combo amp on a tilt back stand, facing me as a personal monitor. If your fx has stereo out, just run it off that, or use a simple ABY, whatever you want. The advantage is obvious, no in ear buds, leaving you able to hear everything, especially yourself.

The problem is though, there is not enough room where our church currently is located at. That was the first option that I wanted to pursue, but because of the way that praise is lead as well as the space given, it is not possible. The order is praise, then we clear the center (meaning that I have to move my music stand and bass to the side where my amp is) quickly so that the message can start. Then everything gets set up again after announcements for one last praise song.
Setting up a combo amp for myself would be great, but even if it was something like a Roland Cube, it would mean something else that I would have to dash back and forth for to clear out of the way.
My only option was to get some kind of earbud.

[TheMutt]

Originally Posted by badgrandad

You migh try setting your input gain higher, either by taking the input pad off (if in fact you have it engaged) and turn up your input gain as high as you can without overdriving that stage and then set your stage volume by the master.

Actually, yes I do use the -15dB pad... Guess I'll try turning it off and messing with my volume settings again to get it right. I actually got sick and tired of hauling my rig to and fro every Sunday, so it's sitting at the church right now. I just bring my bass and effects home and practice through a Bass Ace practice amp that I've had for years and years. I won't get a chance to test anything out definitively until this Sunday. Hopefully that will work.

[badgrandad]

If you have the input pad engaged then turning it off should get you quite a bit more output to the XLR. I've found that running my input as hot as I can actually gives me a better fuller sound anyway, and if you use the drive or boost feature a hot input signal is necessary to really make it "work".

[TheMutt]

Originally Posted by badgrandad

If you have the input pad engaged then turning it off should get you quite a bit more output to the XLR. I've found that running my input as hot as I can actually gives me a better fuller sound anyway, and if you use the drive or boost feature a hot input signal is necessary to really make it "work".

I absolutely agree, but the reason that I have been using the pad is because my amp out-powers our out-dated PA system. I think that if I set it to a low-volume setting, I might be able to get away with it though...

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by TheMutt

The signal chain goes like this:
Bass > Effects > Gallien Krueger 700RB II > XLR out of amp goes to HP-4 (was recommended by the Guitar Center guy to do this), and regular output to my 410.
Help!

How about a 112 extension cab atop the 410 facing backwards so you could hear it? Put the GK on top of that, and your stack keeps the same footprint.

[TheMutt]

Originally Posted by derrico1

How about a 112 extension cab atop the 410 facing backwards so you could hear it? Put the GK on top of that, and your stack keeps the same footprint.

That's a very good idea, which I may go for if the monitor just doesn't work out...

[musicman7722]

Originally Posted by TheMutt

I'm not entirely sure where this should be posted, but I figured that there's enough gurus around here that might know. (Sorry, it's a long read because I'm a details person...)

Recently, the formation that we sit/stand in for Sunday praise has changed around. It used to be that I was standing next to the praise leader (and therefore almost in direct line-of-sight of my amp). But now that there is a second backup singer who has joined us, my spot has been moved back to behind the praise leader. Personally, I liked this move because it freed me up from having to provide some backup vocals, as well as allowed me to move around more on the neck since I didn't have to look out at the congregation as much. The problem was though, there was no place else for my amp to sit at except where it has been. My new position put me actually behind my amp, with it facing away from me. Our PA system is already fed a gross amount of mics and instruments (3 singing mics, accoustic guitar, piano, and a djembe), so I can't plug into the board.

I went out and purchased a PreSonus HP-4 headphone distributor, and a set of M-Audio IE-10 reference ear buds for last week. The signal chain goes like this:
Bass > Effects > Gallien Krueger 700RB II > XLR out of amp goes to HP-4 (was recommended by the Guitar Center guy to do this), and regular output to my 410.
The problem that I am now having is that the reference sound that is coming out is sorely too quiet. I could just barely make out my bass. Even with a good seal on the headphones (I only have one ear in so that I can still hear everyone else. These headphones make things silent!) and the volume turned up all the way on the XLR out as well as on the HP-4. Is there something that I am doing wrong? Or is there a better way to do this, or another product that I should look into?
Help!

Follow this link to my and PeteBass IEM thread. IEM on the Cheap - the next thread

It works great. You can feed the headphone amp from either your DI out, a preamp out or even put a DI on your bass before the amp. By cocking your headphone or leaving them open you could lose a lot of the low end info that the headphones are putting out which makes it seem quiter as well. Good luck...Chris P.

[TheMutt]

Just wanted to update on what I tried out. Well, turning off the -10dB pad did raise the volume of my monitor slightly, but not enough that I could hear it very well. Then I tried raising the volume of my compressor pre-amplifier and turning down the volume of my amp. That seemed to do the trick quite nicely, and now there is no problem whatsoever. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that helped me out!