Suggestions for pedals... NEW BOARD TIME!!!

[JohnDavisNYC]

so, in the next few months leading up to NAMM, i am going to be FINALLY putting together a proper pedalboard again... you know, one that would make Tayste proud....

I've got the pedals that are DEFINITELY staying sorted out, and they will be set up as follows:

bass > OC2 > passive DI for sub out to PA (not sure what yet, probably some whirlwind thingy) > Barge VBjr {in VBjr loop: Woolly Mammoth > Noise Box > Moog LPF> BugCrusherMicro > XO Bass Balls} VBjr >?????

the DOD Phasor 201 might be staying, but I'm not sure... I am currently thinking that I will add:

some sort of pitch vibrato (midfi pitch pirate is a possibility, or some univibe type clone)

octavius squeezer, because the more clips i hear the more i am blown away by it's capabilities... but i am not sure i like the lack of dedicated program scrolling footswitches.

a good simple delay with dedicated tap tempo switch... i'm thinking TC Nova Delay

Sansamp ParaDriver, to have a second post fx DI, and for some occasional light dirt across the whole pile of sound.

all this must fit on a PedalTrain2... currently powered by a DC Brick and dedicated moog supply... DC brick is zip tied to the bottom.

let the suggestions and ideas fly!

John

[Jared Lash]

A couple suggestions:

1. If you are thinking of ditching the DOD but still want a phaser, the Nano Small Stone might be the way to go. A nice dark quality that I think would fit your stuff well. I found the 201 a bit too subtle, but that's me. Now the DOD 490 is the thickest, bassiest phaser this side of the Maestro Stage Phaser, but it's pretty limited. The Maxon PH-350 is capable of some very synthetic/electronic sounds (especially in 6 & 10 stage modes) but again, pretty subtle, a bit large and expensive.

2. The Noisebox does not like being blended. It didn't sound good at all in the loop of my Barge.

3. The Empress Superdelay is still my favorite delay, but you can't go wrong with the TC Nova. On the other hand, if all you need is a digital delay with tap tempo, why not go with one of the DD series of Boss delays?

[GingerConor]

have u thought about getting a tremolo, IMO tremolo is one of the best effects on bass!! im gonna save up and get the empress Tremolo, those rythm patterns are soooo amazing!!!

check it out, im sure u'd like it.

Conor

[JohnDavisNYC]

how is the noisebox weird in a buffered loop? if the output out of phase or something? if you could describe more the manner in which it is weird, that would be great... i will still be getting a looper of some sort, but if too many things aren't good in a blend, i may have to re-think my setup. i was pretty excited about the blender with the noisebox and bass balls, particularly, so that the subs from my OC2 are subtly reinforced beneath the mayhem.

hmmm... as for delay, i would like to avoid the boss delays, as they are a bit sterile for me, and i don't really dig the sound of boss stuff, besides the OC2... the nova seems to offer enough options in terms of character (the only Line6 sound i will miss is the filterdelay... ) yet is still simple in function. the empress just looks like too much to me... too many options. i really like things simple.

as for tremolo, i agree it is cool, but for me, i don't like things that mess with the volume envelope of my sound in a rhythmic manner... i love LFO's for pitch and filter, but for amplitude, it can be tricky. maybe with the Octavius Squeezer I can program some cool LFO trem stuff? I just don't know how much I would use it... i should borrow one and try it out for a bit.

as for the phaser thing... i'm not really 100% into having a phaser... i just liked that one and bought it, and put it on my board... but we'll see. i was browsing the wiki and found something called like the Pheasor or something like that that sounded really strange... gotta check that out.

John

[dannybuoy]

Check out the Digitech Hardwire delay too, it looks like it crams quite a lot of features into a smallish pedal. And tremolo would sound pretty darn cool if put before an enveloper filter so you can get those Empress patterns effectively controlling the Moog LPF.

[JazzyJames]

Digitech Bass Synth Wah. Best octaver ever.

[Jared Lash]

John, one other idea for a phaser (if you decide you do want one) might be the Boss PH-3, especially if you run it in the loop of the Barge. It has a very synthetic sound that would probably work for your stuff. Plus it has the step mode which I'm sure you could put to use. It does cut lows though, so I'd keep it in the blender.

As for the Noise Box, I can't really explain other than to say it didn't sound good. The VFB-2/Noisebox combo "worked" just like it was supposed to, I just wasn't happy with the result. I thought it would make the Subdecay more "controllable" or "tame" it to have a clean signal alongside it, but the clean and the effected signals just didn't sound good together. I wish I could be more descriptive, but it may sound alright to you.

Whether you like using the Noisebox with it or not, the VB-jr (and the custom VFB-2 I had before it) is one of the best pedals I've purchased.

[JohnDavisNYC]

OC2 = best octaver ever... anyway... the 'octaver' part of the equation is definitely not open for discussion, as i totally love the OC2...

as far as the blend goes with the NoiseBox, I have a feeling that it might be ok for me... first of all, I am looking for a VERY small ammount of dry signal to blend back in, and really only to reinforce the low end, so hopefully the madness of the NoiseBox will stay crazy, and i can just add the slightest bit of consistent sine wave bottom to various crazy pedal combos...

the first part of the process is going to be establishing the signal chain with the VBjr...

the Boss phaser is cool, my studio partner has one, but it isn't quite right for me... i really dig the Phaeton clips... that sort of almost filtery out of tune phase sound... i dunno... phase might not be important if i can get a vibrato that will do really disgustingly seasick pitch modulation in a Boards of Canada sort of way... or just crazy LFO'd dillinja sort of stuff.

hmmm... does the hardwire delay have a dedicated footswitch for taptempo? that is crucial for me. can't deal with any push and hold crap.

john

[JohnDavisNYC]

come to think of it, the push and hold crap on the Octavius Squeezer might be a deal breaker for me. I really have to get out to Godlyke and try one.

John

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

phase might not be important if i can get a vibrato that will do really disgustingly seasick pitch modulation in a Boards of Canada sort of way... or just crazy LFO'd dillinja sort of stuff.

First off, I agree about the OC-2. For D&B, dubstep etc I don't think a better octaver exists.

As for the part of your post that I bolded, I know Boards of Canada a bit, but I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean. But when you say "disgustingly seasick pitch modulation", I immediately think of the Mid-Fi Pitch Pirate.

Here's a couple clips from their website:
Pitch Pirate 1
Pitch Pirate 2 (this one's a little more extreme)

I believe grygrx has some samples of it on bass in the Wiki.

[JohnDavisNYC]

the lead/noise guitarist in my rock band has a pitch pirate... i need to borrow it and check it out, but it has a weird feel to it, because it uses a delay line, there is some wierd 'latency' to the feel of it... sometimes... but, his is a really old one, without the blend knob, so maybe they are better in that regard now? i don't know. I really like the Dunlop Rotovibe, but I hate the 'wah pedal' case and expression... kinda just want that sound in a regular box. Maybe the UniVibe circuit is the same? Maybe I have to buy a Rotovibe and have it built into a regular case with just two knobs on the top and a switch? that would be pretty great, actually.

I am bored... my wife is working on some freelance design stuff, so I am just sitting around... keep the ideas coming!

John

[TaySte_2000]

The Noisebox sounds much better blended in an Xotic X-Blender than it does in the Barge.

I've found the difference between the 2 is huge, the Barge makes things sound weaker so a fuzz become like an overdrive while the X-blender sound like 2 separate signals but the Boss LS-2 does a good job as well not quite as clean as the X-Blender.

I've been doing lots of LFO stuff with the Source Audio Tri Mod Wah I've got a video being uploaded soon I'll post it when it's up it's pretty much the most fun pedal I've ever used

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

come to think of it, the push and hold crap on the Octavius Squeezer might be a deal breaker for me. I really have to get out to Godlyke and try one.

AFAIK (I don't own one, I just browsed the manual they published) the Squeezer has a few different modes for the footswitches, and you can run it in a mode that just lets you do tap-tampo without any fannying around.

[JohnDavisNYC]

****... does the barge REALLY suck?

i haven't bought it yet, but I can't imagine how a Burr Brown buffer circuit can suck that bad... hmmm...

I will have to investigate the options a little bit better. Xotic is expensive, and I have a pretty bad microphone habit that is hard to curb.

would you really put the boss LS2 above the Barge?

hmm... you are breaking my world.

maybe i should just go back to a huge bag full of pedals and cables....

as far as the OS goes... I just wish there were 3 buttons, up, down, and bypass... i don't want to have to scroll through tons of patches before getting to the one I want... however... the sound is so killing...

john

[TaySte_2000]

It's just the same idea implemented in different ways.

Just like the idea of a car is implemented differently by Ford and Ferrari, both can get you from A to B but it depends on how much fun you want to have on the way.

I still highly recommend the Mojo Hand Nebula as a dirrect replacement to your 201, its basically the same circuit, but true bypass, standard power supply, no noise and sparkly finish.

Have a look into the Molten Voltage Toggle as well interms of trem its really cool as it can swing and stuff http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7KznB3VhY3c I've got one and it just screams of synth stuff with the loops, my only problem is in my setup I can't have it running my parallel loops as it doesn't do A and B together but if it did it would the main part of my board.

Seriously cool toys

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

as far as the OS goes... I just wish there were 3 buttons, up, down, and bypass... i don't want to have to scroll through tons of patches before getting to the one I want...

Yeah I think they went a bit too minimal on the interface. I'd have preferred a dedicated tap-tempo footswitch or an input for one, and why doesn't it have an expression pedal input? 47 parameters to mess with and no expression control over anything?

I think I'm still buying one, but it doesn't look like the most well-considered box ever in UI terms.

[JohnDavisNYC]

steve thanks for the input... i totally hear the car analogy... i was just wondering what the sound difference is?

hmmm... as far as the phasor goes... what is up with the Phaeton or whatever that you have clips of... that thing rules. that is kinda what i need in my life. i emailed catalinbread asking what the hell is up with that pedal not being listed anywhere... is it old or new?

that toggle thing seems cool, gotta check it out more.

I have to go look at all the features on the Xotic... if the sound is that much better, I can deal with the bigger footprint....

John

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

****... does the barge REALLY suck?

Not in my experience, no it certainly doesn't.

Originally Posted by TaySte_2000

I've found the difference between the 2 is huge, the Barge makes things sound weaker so a fuzz become like an overdrive while the X-blender sound like 2 separate signals.

I didn't find this to be the case at all. In fact I find the statement to be a bit nonsensical. Turning down the gain on a fuzz doesn't make it an overdrive, so blending it certainly wouldn't either. Regardless, I didn't notice anything of the sort.

I A/B'd the Xotic X-Blender with my custom Barge VFB-2 checking my bypassed tone against both pedals engaged set to 100% dry. I also compared them at various blends (25%, 50% 75% etc) with a couple different pedals, including distortions, filters and a couple modulations. I didn't have the Noisebox at this time so I can't comment in that regard, but there was not a substantial difference in tone. In a full band mix any differences (if there were any) would be completely negligible.

I still think the Xotic is the best blender on the market based on its features, but if pedalboard real estate and cost are factors, then buy the Barge VB-jr and don't think twice about it.

I ended up selling both (well the Xotic was traded) of those blends and now I have the VB-jr and it's worked exactly as it should.

[JohnDavisNYC]

hmmm... cool. so many different views. and i can totally see each side's validity... looking at the Xotic, it really just seems like way too many features for what i need... but it also definitely looks well built, and i have many things in my studio that others might say are overkill, but i notice the difference....

I might have to just buy the VBjr, and if any of my pedals sound WORSE in the loop than after the buffer in my OC2, I'll sell it and get the Xotic, but if they sound the same (which I'm hoping)or better then it's a keeper...

it is really the simplicity, rather than the price that attracts me to the Barge... I don't want a damn EQ on my effects... just a little bit of dry signal underneath...

John

[icarussmicarus]

I think someone like you could get amazing results out of a Subdecay Prometheus. The fliter options alone are great, but the Sample and Hold is the killer deal maker.